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  • Tight loop question



    Walter & Group.........

    From Scott Swartz :

    Gordy,
     
    Thanks for posing the question to Bruce. I think what he has to offer about loop shapes makes perfect sense. I appreciate him, and everyone, for coming in on this puzzle with some pieces. I have a much better understanding thanks to the folks here.
     
    I now have a tangential question based on Bruce's response. I don't want to hijack my loop shape question (or any further answers) so feel free to wait to post this or just give me your thoughts.
    I understand SLP makes the tightest loops and according to Bruce and Noel's work constant acceleration helps us best achieve the SLP. 
     
     
    Q. Why would it seem loops get tighter with the old "speed up and stop" that was the mantra for so many years? I used Lefty's term but almost all popular instructors of our time have a name for it...power snap...micro-second wrist, ect...
     
     
    I wonder if attempting to SUAS is simply a mind game that helps to maintain acceleration and SLP or is there something "magic" about the last movements of the cast before the stop. To quote Lefty again..the cast goes in the direction of the speed up and stop. By example: a moderate length cast, with a huge convex rod tip path, through a long wide arc, would normally lead to a wide open loop but can be turned into a tighter loop with a moment of exaggerated acceleration of the cast just before the stop. What makes this work and why? Were we all mistaken in teaching students last minute acceleration all these years? I believe there must be more influence to the loop shape from the final moments of the stroke than there is from all the rest. Could that be true?
     
    Scott Swartz
     
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Scott:   Let me jump in here with an answer to your question..... then we'll ask for Bruce's critique.:
     
    To some extent, the loop can be altered with what we do at the conclusion of the stroke, as I see it.
     
    I see nothing wrong with Lefty's, "speed-up-and-stop", Joan's,"Power-Snap" or Doug Swisher's, "microsecond wrist".  All these are discriptions which were very good for getting the movements of making a tight loop into students' brains without confusing them with more scientific terms.  They all worked, and still do.
     
    Then Lefty added:  " The size of the loop is determined by the distance that you speed up and stop ".  Many took umbrage with that statement, and I did, too .... until I talked with Lefty and understood that what he meant was that when you speed up (accelerate) to a stop over a long interval, you usually dip the tip of the rod down and unload it way below the oncoming line forming a wide loop.  When you do it over a short interval you don't dip the rod so far down below the oncoming line and you get a tight loop. The former yields more convexity of the path of the rod tip than the latter at the end of the stroke.
     
    As I teach with Lefty, I am impressed with his way of using plain language to get students to cast better even when the words are not strictly, "correct" from a physics standpoint.  As I watched Joan reap miracles with her students, I'm equally impressed that her language works.
     
    The concept that a convex path of the rod tip yields a wide loop whereas the straight line path of the tip yields a tight loop, and a concave path of the tip can yield a tailing loop is correct ..... but utterly simplistic.  We've come a long way from that as a final answer, especially as we try to analyze complex casting problems.
     
    One could say that failure to teach the concept of the straight line path of the rod tip combined with smooth, CONSTANT, acceleraton was a flaw ..... but until recently, those physics parameters had not yet been worked out.  Never the less, those teachings worked ....because they got into student's brains and casting arms with the use of plain language.  Simply put, if I tell a new student to use constant acceleration and to create a straight line path of the rod tip, I've accomplished nothing .... because he won't understand it.
     
    I look at the "last minute acceleration" as no more than the logical extension of constant acceleration .... not necessarily the increase in rate of acceleration which the, "jerk" or "jolt" described by Eric Cook represents.  (I used to teach, "accelerated acceleration" until the engineers and physicists shot me down in flames.)
     
    I, too, thought that this was leading to the idea that what happens to the rod tip path during the start and middle of the stroke wouldn't matter as much as what happens at the end of it.  Then I considered the fact that I can change the effect of a convex tip path in the middle of the stroke only to a very limited degree with what I do at the end.
     
    Another example is that if I create a wide loop purposely to, "kite" with a wind in the direction of my cast, I can do so by placing increased rod arc (with convexity of rod tip path) right at the start of my cast followed by a more straight line tip path for the rest of the stroke.   That one, I can't abort with anything I do at the end of the stroke.
     
    Delaying rotation at the rod handle until later in the cast does not, I feel, detract from the principle of constant acceleration to the most complete stop the caster can make.  Bruce has looked at that delay of rotation with his Casting Analyzer and noted that when done it gave a higher incidence of tight loops.
     
    Gordy