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  • Re: FW: Compensations with stiff rod



    Walter...
     
    I agree with your answer except for the timing.  This can be a bit of a brain teaser, especially if you have not gone out on the field and done it while videoing.
     
    As you said, to unroll the same amount of line with a shorter stroke (and less rod arc) in the same amount of time, you need greater speed.    "....but we have a shorter stroke and, therefore less time to accelerate from zero to the same peak speed..."  This translates into more rapid cadence ("faster stroke")....or less time between strokes.
     
    Using the same amount of line out of the rod tip, speeding up the cadence means that there must be less time for each pause if the amount of line carried does not change.
     
    We found that this was the case when we did the field experiments using the poker stiff rod.
     
    Bill Gammel pointed this out a couple of years ago when he said that there must be a longer pause when you carry more line for a longer cast.... and that you need a shorter pause when carrying the same amount of line as you speed up the cast.
     
    This caveat was never added to the list of, "essentials", though it remains fact.
     
    THAT is an interesting concept which at first would seem to be a conundrum.......Theoretically, then, we could have a caster increasing the amount of line carried as he false casts, but increasing the speed of his cast with each stroke.  If this were balanced, then there would be no change in the pause time even though he increased his distance !!!!!
     
    Gordy
    ----- Original Message -----
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    Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 11:29 PM
    Subject: FW: FW: Compensations with stiff rod

     
     

    Allen Crise FFF Master Casting Instructor
    FFF-SOC VP of Education
    FWFF Education Chairman
    GCC Casting Chairman

    Hawk Ridge Flycasting School
    2508 A County Road 1011
    Glen Rose, TX 76043
    Ranch 254-897-2045
     Cell 254-396-1574
    geocities.com/rrdoctor
    flysoup@xxxxxxxxxx

    -----Original Message-----
    From: WALTER/SUE SIMBIRSKI [mailto:simbirsw@xxxxxxx]
    Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 11:01 AM
    To: Allen Crise
    Subject: Re: FW: Compensations with stiff rod

    1.) Stroke. (Path taken by the hand.) - shorter

    2.) Rod arc. - less (more on this later)
     
    3.) Timing / application of power. - Timing - no change. Application of of power - smooth with same peak power but over a shorter time.
     
    Now for the long answer -
     
    Everything else being equal, fast action (stiff) rods can cast farther than medium action rods. Relative to the medium rod we can think of this a short cast. Basic casting mechanics tells us that for a short cast use a short stroke. The exception to the short cast analogy is that basic casting mechanics would tell us that for a short cast we would use a shorter pause but we are still carrying the same amount of line which means the amount of time for it to unroll remains the same so the pause at the end of the stroke (i.e. timing) remains the same.
     
    With respect to the application of power, we want to get the line moving at the same speed at the end of the presentation stroke but we are using a shorter stroke. The elements of the cast remain the same - loading move followed by power snap but we have a shorter stroke and, therefore, less time to accelerate from zero to the same peak speed so while we apply more acceleration but at the same phases.
     
    With respect to the arc, the stiff rod will have less counterflex at the end of the stroke so we could actually apply more arc when measured at the rod butt and maintain the same loop size but, again, this is a relatively short cast for the stiff rod so we wouldn't need to apply as much arc. With the medium action rod we would reduce the additional counterflex by using a thrust motion at the end of the stroke to impart additional energy to the line while maintaining the tight loop. With the stiff rod we would just come to a stop to maintain the same loop size.
     
    Walter
     

    ----- Original Message -----

    From: Allen Crise <flysoup@xxxxxxxxxx>

    Date: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 6:04 am

    Subject: FW: Compensations with stiff rod

    > from Gordy
    >
    > Allen Crise FFF Master Casting Instructor
    > FFF-SOC VP of Education
    > FWFF Education Chairman
    > GCC Casting Chairman
    >
    > Hawk Ridge Flycasting School
    > 2508 A County Road 1011
    > Glen Rose, TX 76043
    > Ranch 254-897-2045
    > Cell 254-396-1574
    > geocities.com/rrdoctor
    > flysoup@xxxxxxxxxx
    >
    >
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: Gordon Hill [hillshead@xxxxxxx]
    > Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 6:50 AM
    > To: Allen Crise
    > Subject: Compensations with stiff rod
    >
    >
    > ol Al....
    >
    >
    > For the Group:
    >
    > You made that perfect 55' cast with the medium fast rod. Then you
    > madeexactly the same cast using the poker stiff rod. You used
    > exactly the same
    > application of power, the same rod arc, and the same stroke (hand
    > path).This resulted in a wide or open loop.
    >
    > Now you figure out the compensations you need to make, and make a
    > decent 55'
    > cast with a reasonably small loop using that totally stiff rod.
    >
    > QUESTION: What compensations did you make ? Consider any you
    > might make
    > with respect to:
    >
    > 1.) Stroke. (Path taken by the hand.)
    >
    > 2) Rod arc.
    >
    > 3.) Timing / application of power.
    >
    > Gordy
    >