Guy Manning's study/ competition distance casting

Walter & Group....

Guy Manning's detailed video study of elite casters during competition distance casting as sent to me by Alan Crise.  Great study !!!!

Gordy

 

ol Al....

Without haveing actually seen the video studies, my comments will be reserved..except for a few points.  They are in RED CAPS. in the text, below.

Gordy

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From: "Allen Crise" <flysoup@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: "Gordy Hill" <hillshead@xxxxxxx>
Subject: more form FFFCCI
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 06:45:58 -0500

Hi all,

I've been studying videos of Steve Rajeff, Jay Clark, Renee Gillibert and
others. I did the videos on sports mode which creates a frame exposure time
of 1/4000 of a second. This effectively stops the rod and hand and allows
them to be tracked on the screen. I overlaid a piece of clear plastic on my
screen and plotted the hand path, hand rotation in relation to the wrist,
the angle of the rod butt, and the amount of bend in the rod.

Understand that these were all casts for maximum distance at the 2006 ACA
games at the Long Beach Casting Club this past August.

I plotted the hand path from the beginning of the forward stroke until the
wrist was turned over. That point was basically where the stop was applied
at the end of rotation (any further movement toward the target was drift
(thrust, follow through or whatever). I put a dot at both beginning of
forward movement and at the end of rotation. I plotted a line between the
dots to represent the hand path.

I then stepped back through the video and found that frame where the rod was
bent the farthest down toward the butt. I noted the frame number and marked
that point on the line by drawing a short line through the butt of the rod.
This line would reflect angle of the rod butt at the point of deepest bend.

THAT SEEMS TO ME TO BE A VERY CLEVER WAY OF STUDYING THESE CASTS !

Next I stepped back through the frames and noted the frame number where the
rotational phase of the cast first appeared (as represented by an angle
change of the rod butt to the lower arm). This would represent the first
instance of application of the wrist to the cast.

 

FROM A PHYSICS STANDPOINT, THIS WOULD HAVE REPRESENTED THE FIRST OPTICAL EVIDENCE OF ROTATORY MOTION OF THE ROD BUTT....NOT, STRICTLY, THE APPLICATION OF TORSIONAL FORCE.

I then approximated the distance the hand traveled down the hand path before
the application of rotation.

Lastly I tracked the line hand and noted the point during the cast where the
power phase of the haul was actually applied and the distance it moved from
the rod hand during the power phase.

Results:
Steves hand traveled appx 75% of the way down the hand path prior to
application of wrist.
Jay and Renees hands traveled appx 80% of the way down the hand path prior
to application of the wrist.

In all 3 cases the rod was bent farthest down the blank at a point where the
rod butt was perpendicular to the hand path line.

In all 3 cases the wrist was not applied until the butt of the rod reached
the point of perpendicularity (is that a real word?) mentioned above.

 

I CANNOT SEE HOW THE ROD BUTT SECTION COULD HAVE ARRIVED AT AN ANGLE SUCH THAT IT WAS PERPENDICULAR TO THE HAND PATH LINE UNLESS THERE HAD OCCURRED SOME ROTATION, UNLESS IT HAD STARTED THAT WAY..... AN UNLIKELY EVENT. 

ALSO: WE MUST CONSIDER THE THAT THE HAND PATH COULD ONLY BE RECORDED IN ONE PLANE DESPITE THE LIKELIHOOD THAT THERE WAS AN ELLIPTICAL COMPONENT TO THAT PATH WHICH COULD ONLY HAVE BEEN PICKED UP BY A 3 DIMENSIONAL DEPICTION.  I DOUBT, HOWEVER, THAT THIS WOULD HAVE ALTERED GUY'S BASIC CONCLUSIONS.

Steve began rotation 75% of the way through the stroke, while Jay and Renee
began 80% of the way through the stroke.

 

THAT DOES MAKE SENSE AS THIS WAS PROBABLY THE POINT WHERE THE CAST WENT FROM MOSTLY TRANSLATIONAL PHASE TO MAINLY ROTATORY PHASE WHERE THE CASTING ARC CONTRIBUTES SIGNIFICANTLY TO ROD TIP SPEED.

The line and rod hands of all 3 stayed almost parallel to one another until
power application of the haul.

In all 3 cases the power phase of the haul was not applied until the
rotational phase of the rod hand had begun.

In all cases the rod was unbending from the butt up only after the
rotational phase had begun at a point where the rod butt passed a point
perpendicular to the hand path.

 

FROM THAT POINT TO RSP, I'D EXPECT THE VELOCITY OF THE ROD TIP TO BE INCREASED.

Conclusions: (Keep in mind that the translational phase is not pure
translational movement unless it is measured relative to the wrist, so there
is "some" rotation in the translational phase)

 

THAT NOTATION SOLVES MY DILEMMA !

All bend is generated during the translational phase. The rotational phase
adds no bend to the rod... it only lengthens the time for the rod to unload
and helps dampen the action of the tip.

 

I'VE LEARNED SOMETHING HERE.....WOULD NOT HAVE EXPECTED THIS.  MAKES ME WONDER IF THIS IS THE CASE WITH MOST STRAIGHT LINE OVERHEAD CASTING OTHER THAN COMPETITION DISTANCE CASTING.

 

.....FOR EXAMPLE, ONE CAN MAKE A FAIR SHORT CAST USING NO TRANSLATIONAL PHASE AT ALL.....ONLY ROTATION.  (TIM RAJEFF HAS POINTED THIS OUT.)  IN DOING SO, THERE IS LOADING OF THE ROD AS EVIDENCED BY ROD BEND.

 

....THE OTHER SIDE OF THE COIN, IS THAT IT ISN'T POSSIBLE TO  MAKE AN EFFECTIVE CAST OF DISTANCE WITH TRANSLATIONAL MOVEMENT (PHASE) ALONE WHEN NO ROTATIONAL PHASE IS ADDED.

GUY POINTS THIS OUT IN THE PARAGRAPH, BELOW.

I know that rotation is not needed to make a cast. You can prove this by
using good form and a stiff wrist. You get fairly decent loops but will
probably be limited in loop size and distance. But, I guess I am amazed at
the fact that the additional power applied by the wrist during the last
20-25% of the stroke seems to add nothing to the bend of the rod.

 

I'M AMAZED BY THAT LAST SENTENCE, TOO.  PERHAPS THIS POWER APPLICATION BY THE WRIST MOTION DURING THT LAST 20% - 25% OF THE STROKE ADDS TIP SPEED EVEN THOUGH NO INCREASE IN ROD BEND WAS NOTED.  THIS PROBABLY COINCIDED WITH THE MOST EFFECTIVE CONTRIBUTION BY THE HAUL IN ADDING LOOP SPEED (AS THE RESULT OF INCREASED TIP SPEED) APART FROM ANY CONTRIBUTION THIS HAUL MAY HAVE HAD PRIOR TO THIS BY INCREASING ROD BEND/LOAD.

Comments???

 

KUDOS FOR A GREAT STUDY !!!!!!!..... .....Gordy

Guy Manning
FFF Master Certified Casting Instructor
Moderator FFFCCI Yahoo Group

Allen Crise FFF Master Casting Instructor