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  • Spey Casting / Lesson / Roll cast



    Walter & Group...........

    These are the last Group messages from me until I get back next week.

    Message from Mac Brown:-

    Hi James,
    Just a quick thought on the third lesson as you mention. The use of rhythm, tempo, pause, timing, etc... (called so many things is it not?) would be my vote for the third lesson. An exercise I find helpful in teaching is to have the student manipulate various size circles all around their body. One loop rolling will require a certain frequency of force followed by a pause. Continue to increase this to 2 circles all the way up to 8 when skill progresses. After a while the student will think 4 loops and be able to demonstrate 4 looped circle traveling all around the body. This exercise has many benefits to the caster in that they have perfected mastering line manipulation. This is valuable for anchors, switches, snap T's, jelly rolls, etc... but also for dealing with tight places for setting up roll casts. More importantly it is a must for delicate repositioning of fly line after the cast is made for dealing with currents. This finesses business is the main thing missing in my opinion after guiding for 24 years. I guess I would label this 3rd lesson as a tempo exercise.
     
    This tempo exercise comes back around again in linear type casting as well. The ability to demonstrate in and out of time is critical for progressing in all types of casts. The circle exercise listed above cuts through all of this the quickest in my opinion. How many times have we watched newbies cast out of time (failure to wait long enough, maybe due to a change in line length, hauling tempo, or too much coffee?) Being a musician it is easy to get frustrated watching a group of folks clapping out of time. If we fail to pause in such an example then we never get back in time-ah, the same in casting so to speak. Spey requires much more gifted timing overall in my opinion (like a jazz impromptu player) so a little exercise in tempo surely could not hurt matters much. Cheers, Mac Brown

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    Comment:  I'd advise reading Mac's message very carefully.  A lot to be learned, here. My own take is that relating the smooth cadence of Spey casting to music is right on target !
     
    Gordy
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    Gordy and Jim:
     
    Place me in the beginner category in Spey Casting.   There is a DVD that I am learning from that may be worth looking into entitled, "Spey to Z--Understanding Traditional, Scandinavian, & Skagit Style Spey Casting with a Single and Double-Handed rod." by Topher Brown, Way Yin and Greg Pearson.
     
    I know Greg and he is the best in illustrating and teaching Spey.  Topher is Masters Certified and his communication it this DVD is outstanding.  Wan Yin is also Certified and an M.D.  Those Medical Doctors are pretty good teachers.
     
    This DVD is very well done and comes with recommendations for the best.  It may be worth James exploring this for his purposes.
     
    Jerry Puckett  
     
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    Jerry:  That is one I have not seen.  Can you let us know where it can be obtained ?
     
    Gordy
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    From Rick Whorwood:
     
    Hi Gordy
    Since I teach mostly two methods, Skagit and Traditional. I will explain the traditional as I believe this is what he's asking.
    1, After checking (the students) and explaining the importance of a balanced outfit, I demonstrate  what a two hand and single hand have in common (straight tip path for tight loops, stopping the rod, slack and the importance of not having any, ect. then I talk about grips, stance, and explain the principals, 180, anchor and "D" loop, I switch back and forth between the single and a two hand rod, and this is done on grass. All Spey cast can be done with a single hand rod, quite often I supply the rod-reels etc. assuring that the students have balanced outfits to work with.
    2, we now go to the water, and do a roll cast , off both sides, the forward loop is rolled over the water not on the water. This is an important cast, it will straighten the line (on the dangle) also bring a sink tip up to the surface, prior to the next cast.
    3, Next a  Switch cast, this is and accelerated roll cast, where the line jumps from the dangle into an anchor point. I teach both sides, Spend as much time as needed to understand the anchor and D loop and timing, This becomes critical, you must watch every Spey movement !!
    4, Single Spey, this is nothing more then a switch cast with a slight (30 degrees) change of direction, both sides. The mistake here, is to make to big of a change of direction, keep at 30 till you master it.
    5 Now comes the Double, again anchor, and timing are so important, and teach both sides
    6 Snap T, or Circle C, after this the student can fish both banks and both side of his/her body.
     
    In most cases this is taught over two days, at the end of the class I do a show and tell, where each student explains and demonstrates a few cast, this assures me they got it ! If you did a single day class modify the course (roll-switch double, and snap T is what I would teach)
     
     I spent 18 months preparing for my two-hand test, three days a week on water, on average 8 hours a day. "this is not exaggerated" We as students are always in a big hurry to cast as far as we can, and try something new, try to avoid this, learn each cast to the best of your ability before moving on to the next. My courses teach and explain what to do, it's up to the student to master it. One last thing, Spey Casting should be effortless. I it hurts your doing it wrong.
     
    Good night, hope this help answer some questions
    Rick Whorwood's
    Fly Casting School
    www.flycastingschool.com
    (905)-662-8999
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    From Troy Miller on the Roll Cast:
     

    Hi Gordy –

     

    Good to be back in touch.  I said those EXACT words to Tom White when he tested me in Alaska in 1995 (fat line only turning over skinnier line as the loop unrolls)…

     

    I agree with and have used (more or less) all the methods you talk about below at some time or another, as the needs dictate.  Truthfully, I don’t teach much roll casting in TX.  Most of our casts are for saltwater or LM bass, and roll casts are not often indicated (at least not for a presentation cast, but occasionally for setting up future false casts with sinking lines, etc).  I’m one of the first people I know that did NOT teach the roll cast to students as their first cast.  For 25 years, I’ve gotten my students false casting first.  Many other instructors criticized me for this, but it worked for me (the madness to my method…).  Now, there are not very many instructors that start out teaching their students the roll cast first.  I’m happy about that, but know that it has nothing to do with my preference.  It’s just been a natural evolution of flycasting instruction method.

     

    One point that I’d like to make.  I think that it’s important for the student to understand the relationship between the setup, the rod tip path during the roll cast stroke, and the shape of the loop.  In other words, I want them to be able to make slower, fatter rolls if desired.  When fishing a brace of wets, I PURPOSELY make a 4 or 5 foot diameter loop to “roll” across the water (not completely breaking free from the water as you would when making a shooting roll cast).  This absolutely prevents tangling, and keeps the wet flies wet so they fish immediately when landing.  So, a sharp, fast, pointed loop is NOT always the objective when roll casting.  Sometimes, we need to take a page from the old books…

     

    Take care, and hope your new year is a great one!

     

    Regards -- TAM

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    Troy...

    Does seem that the, "Holy Graile" of all casting is the TIGHT LOOP.  At least one would think so from so much of our FFF teaching and testing.  So much of the time in real fly fishing circumstances we need loops of various sizes and shapes.  For some kinds of fishing, a tight loop is an anathema ... not an advantage.

    I don't look at the tight loop that way at all.  My view is that whether the caster is roll casting, Spey casting, or straight line overhead casting, I want him/her to have mastered loop CONTROL .  To me, that means being able to make any loop.... large or small to suit a particular fishing or casting circumstance.

    On an MCCI exam, I'll ask to have the candidate make three distinct types of wide loops, tell me what they are used for in fishing, and then tell me how to teach them, including the casting mechanics behind each different wide loop.   THAT tells me right away if the candidate has an in depth understanding.

    As I see it, CONTROL IS THE NAME OF THE GAME !

    In our salt water casting classes and individual instruction, we do teach the roll cast and it's many applications for fishing the mangroves, roll pickups, and the roll for getting sinking lines to the surface as well as the "roll" portion of the salt water "quick cast".-

    Gordy