Haul for distance / Instruction while guiding / Rotation

Walter & Group........

From Michael Gallert:

Hi all,

My comments in Black.

I liked Bill's answers... now the but.

"First since it is a safe assumption that a double haul will be required to create enough loop speed for the distance required"

Is it really a safe assumption that hauling for increased loop speed are the required for a cast of 75' 

A few years ago Chuck Easterling proved to me that I could cast 75 Feet without hauling. I did not believe it at first, now I am a Believer.

Truly examining the potential of a rod, the stroke length, arc, delayed rotation and drift made me believe I could get more out of the rod in a single stroke with one hand only

Yes hauling made it easier to get to 75 feet. 

But the drill made it easier to progress to 80,85,90,100... 

Michael

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Michael

 

An efficient caster can certainly make a 75' cast with no haul at all.  I've seen Bill Gammel do a demo on distance casting at the SE Conclave.  He easily threw an entire fly line with a 6 wt. outfit using one hand..... no haul.

 

Of course, the double haul will increase distance ... though not as much as formerly touted as long as your basic casting mechanics are sound.  In the event that you have slack in the system as you cast, it will help even more.  NOT so much because it increases line speed and adds somewhat to the loading of the rod, but because the haul was used to take up the slack.

 

Some facts:

 

#  If you have an efficient casting stroke, the double haul primarily increases loop speed.

#  It SECONDARILY increases rod loading.

#  The Haul shares the work load for the casting arm. (This give the distinct feeling that you don't have to cast as, "hard" with the casting arm.)

#  Many poor casters use the haul to take out unnoticed slack.  This is one reason not to teach it until your student has gained an efficient cast using only one arm.

 

I like Lefty's statement:  " Most poor casters use the haul to throw their mistakes farther."

 

Gordy

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From Todd Somsel..........

(On giving casting instruction while guiding a client.)

 

Gordy,

 

I really am at odds sometimes with this one.  While I guide here in Arizona, we often fish small streams and still waters which place a premium on casting accuracy.  The guide in me says, get my client into fish and quality fish, the instructor in me says without a very solid cast they will not  catch those fish. So your client either makes an accurate cast or a longer cast to a quality fish just out of their casting range, moral of that story no fish if they don't have the skills.

 

I have a lot of clients who could not give a hoot about placing a cast in a 1 foot circle or roll out a nice stacked loop to a rising fish on the edge of a weed bed.  So in many cases I squeeze my instruction in a casting tip or can I show you a trick to catch that fish type comment?  This helps remove many of the barriers and the net result is an open mind, some fish caught and a happy client.  

 

Regards,

 

Todd

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Todd

Bottom line, here, is that as a guide you have to, "read" your client and the circumstance in order to judge the amount of instruction to use (if any).

 

Gordy

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An important question from Bill Toone:

 

Thanks for your insight.  I look forward to comments by others as well.

One question though.  In what sense are you using the term “rotation” (i.e. “IF HE DELAYS ROTATION”)?

Regards,

Bill Toone

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Bill.......

Rotation can be in one of two planes.  In this instance, we are talking about the rotation of the hand/wrist of the casting arm in providing rod arc ie. the angular change in the position of the butt section of the fly rod from the start of the cast to its conclusion.  It is accomplished in the rod plane (orientation of the rod from vertical to horizontal on either side of the caster) for straight line overhead casts.

Many great casters start the cast with translation of the rod butt.  No rotation at all, but a forward, "dragging" of the rod in the direction of the cast.  This provides little acceleration of the rod tip and, therefore, practically no appreciable rod load.  It does help take out any slack and, I feel, does break the inertia of the weight of the fly line.  Then there is, as the cast proceeds, a combination of linear motion of the hand (translation) and rotation as the rod arc begins.

This smoothly leads to a phasing out of most of the linear (translational) movement in favor of almost pure rotation which is what is going on during the, "speed-up-to-a-stop"  ("power snap").

Almost all of the acceleration from this point on is STEADY INCREASE IN ANGULAR VELOCITY OF THE ROD BUTT which can be seen as smooth or constant acceleration (for an efficient cast) to an (almost) stop or very rapid negative acceleration.  It is this angular acceleration of the rod butt section which yields increasing tip travel and tip speed which becomes maximal between the STOP of the hand and the zero deflection point which is the Rod Straight Position.

We have noted that by having the caster use a bit more translational phase to delay this final rotation ("turnover") that this often results in better controlled and tighter loops for distance casting.

I may have confused you with a prior message in which I discussed AXIAL rotation of the rod.  That means twisting it in it's own axis.  This is rotation in an entirely different plane.  It occurs with many curve casts, and elliptical casts including Spey casts.  (This is why many Spey casters tape their ferrules so they don't twist loose.) Check out the text and photos by Ed Jaworowski and Lefty Kreh in Ed's book, THE CAST pp. 130 - 137.

Gordy

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From Jeff Barefoot, MCCI........

Hi Folks,

 

        Just my thoughts on the different rod question.  I would have to say that the tip speed to adequately unroll 75' of line would be identical w/both rods. The primary difference would be that the stiffer of the two rods would need to bend less to generate the same tip speed. As for caster input, only the amount of handle rotation would need to be different from each rod [the stiffer/less]. This is on my assumption that the faster rod is in fact the stiffest.   Linear hand movement yields no mechanical advantage so it's change is far less important. 

 

Jeff

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Jeff... a good way to put it.  I agree.

 

Gordy

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