From: "JFV" <jfv@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "'Gordon Hill'"
<hillshead@xxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: High Speed Data for Straight
Rod Tip Trajectory Cast
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 09:10:48 -0500
Gordy,
I sense the weight of the line on the backcast, (nothing heavy just
feel it is there)
As I begin the forward stroke I am feeling
just move the line forward (slow and steady)
Through the middle of the stroke it feels
like, Just keep it going obviously a little faster but not fast or real
forceful.
There is an increasing tension in the system.
As I start the power snap, pop- stop whatever you want
to call it, I sense I am trying to hold on to the Tension, Extend and Increase the Tension and put a Finish on
the Stroke !
Kind of
like putting an Exclamation point at the end of the Stroke, a Finish with
Emphasis !
Extend
the Tension and Finish with an Exclamation Point !
As I add
some wrist and move my hand forward.
I would
add that it feels like I am unloading the rod and extending the tension through
RSP and into Counterflex.
Interesting,
Hope this helps.
Jim V
MCI
From: Gordon Hill
[mailto:hillshead@xxxxxxx]
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006
10:12 AM
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Subject: Re: High Speed Data for
Straight Rod Tip Trajectory Cast
Server....
Remember
the studies showing that the maximum speed of the rod tip lies between the stop
(or rapid deceleration) of the hand and RSP. Even if you can show that
the line has ceased to accelerate, it, perforce, is also moving at max.
velocity. At RSP the line can and does overtake the rod tip as the loop
starts to form.
You are
correct in that I can't actually feel or sense that as I cast, and I doubt
other casters can, either.
So your
question as to just what the caster senses at the end of the stroke is a good
one.
Before I
send in my own answer:
LET'S
HEAR FROM OTHERS IN THE GROUP AS TO JUST WHAT EACH CASTER "FEELS" OR,
"SENSES" AT THE END OF HIS/HER CASTING STROKE. (no matter how wierd
it might sound.)
Gordy
From: Ssadik1@xxxxxxx
To: hillshead@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: High Speed Data for Straight
Rod Tip Trajectory Cast
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 23:56:10 EST
I wanted to talk with you before your week long casting
retreat but it didn't happen. The subject would have been to canvas
excellent casters on what they think they are sensing near the end of the
cast. I need to talk a little about the anatomy of a fly cast to get into
this discussion. For purposes of brevity let's consider a baseline cast
-- no hauling, no base motion (on some future discussion I'll go into the
physics of energizing casts with base motion -- most casters trying for long
distance do some form of this and my plots were a version of
this style of cast). Also you can refer to casting analyzer plots to see
some of what I am talking about here. A dominant constraint on rod
angular motion is the range of rotation available from the wrist (60-70-80
degrees of motion). The mechanical work performed on the rod-line system
for this baseline cast is predominately the integral (a calculus term) of
applied torque versus the angle the torque rotates through. For maximum
line speed you need to generate the maximum torque throughout your limited
range of rotation (maximizes the integral) -- this maximizes the work done and
maximizes the energy available to the line. So your goal in this type of
casting (maximum line speed) is to apply as large a torque on the rod butt as
you are physically able to do over the entire limited range of rotation available
to you. Well, if you do this what choice do you have but to feel as if
you must also stop rapidly -- you can only go so far (the degrees of motion
mentioned earlier) and your wrist hits a wall. So maintaining a
beneficial torque as long as possible necessitates stopping the wrist rapidly
because you have only a few degrees until you are at the end of wrist travel
available. To me this is like those tests of sport cars where they see
how far a car has to travel to first accelerate to 100 mph and then decelerate
to a stop. For casting the act of stopping the wrist is an artifact (a
requirement) that is required by human anatomy. If improved performance
is sought it comes about by generating larger and larger amounts of work over
the limited range I mentioned earlier. Stopping harder has an
insignificant effect on this. Another thing about the anatomy of a cast
is that sometime before getting to RSP the line acceleration has ceased. (I
estimate on my plots I had another 4-5 feet of travel before RSP and half of
that would be after line acceleration ceased.) This is because while
it is true the tip is moving the fastest at RSP the angles are poor
and the line near the tip is being directed toward the ground
excessively. Consequently the majority of the flyline is in free flight
and that near the tip is traveling in a circular trajectory aimed as much
toward the ground as it is forward. The caster probably has no sense of
any of this except for the fact that his body knows the limit of his controlled
wrist rotation. So, what can a caster sense?? Certainly one of the
bigger feedbacks should be an awareness of when the torque on the rod butt
reverses because the caster is the one supplying this torque. You can
also think about what you sense when the peak counterflex//rebound
occurs. I'm pretty sure I know what my body does but then I know what a
strange instant this is -- you body intuitively knows that something has to
change or you'll be trying to setup larger rod vibrations. Check
your reaction and I think you'll find you perform hand manipulations which
change the boundary conditions (structural dynamics speak) and disrupt the
vibrations. So the sensations go something like -- well I did my best,
but I see the wall coming so I'd better slow down, but the backpack on by back
is moving so I'd better reverse the forces I've been applying and things are
finally at their conclusion. I'd be curious to know what proficient
casters think they are sensing -- it would probably reveal some
confusion. What about you -- what do you think your're sensing at the end
of a cast?