Walter & Group....
Gordy, interesting detail, I've added some comments below.....
Bruce
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Group: Now check out Bruce's return comments noted by ****** and green characters in Laurence's text. Read this string of messages very carefully....a lot to learn, here ! :-
Gordy
-----Original Message-----
From: G. Laurence Baggett [mailto:glbaggett@xxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 1:41 AM
To: Master Study
Subject: RE: Straight vs level;
Gordy: Thanks, I just ordered Borger’s book from Amazon. I think the
difficulty I have is this " straight" concept. The straight path of the rod
to and from the target is relatively easy. Where the hand and tip of the
rod are during the casting stroke is confusing. I don’t see how the hand
can be "level" at the same time the rod tip is. One or the other has to off
the line that I will refer to as "level" in a hypothetical cast where it is
the intention to have the line travel level with the ground. For example,
in a "laid back" cast (my term for lack of knowledge of a better one) at
the end of the back cast results in the rod tip far below the level it was
at the apex of the casting stroke although the hand has remained at a
relatively constant level from the ground throughout the stroke.
******Laurence is confused because he is considering hand and tip path
outside the actual casting stroke. What happens during the drift and drag
part of a cast has no direct impact on tip path during the stroke, which
starts with "distinct" acceleration. In reality, tip path is rather
meaningless even in the first part of the stroke where tip speed is low.
Noel and I have determined that until tip speed reaches about 10 m/s it has
little impact on top leg attitude. So, we can only really compare tip and
hand paths during the higher speed parts of the stroke, the rest is just
repositioning, for one reason or another.....
Another confusing description from Lefty is that the line travels in the
direction the rod tip stops. Jaworowski says the line goes in the direction
the rod tip is "moving"(???).
*****I've always thought Lefty's description of this was confusing. It the
tip is stopped, it has no direction. Plus, he is using "tip stop" for the
tip at RSP, which is where the tip is moving fastest. During a cast, the
tip only stops, very momentarily, at the end of counterflex. This
determines where the bottom leg of the loop will be. I know what he means,
but it is stated very poorly. Ed is more correct, of course the line has to
go in the direction the rod tip is moving, the rod tip is what moves the
line.
I can’t find what Joan Wulff says except to make a "power stroke"
approximately beginning 90 degrees to the target, and that the power stroke
should be no more than 45 degrees.
****Obviously Joan has a very particular cast in mind, and it is a rather
short delivery cast. This instruction certainly can't be used outside that
specific context.
If the line travels in the direction the rod tip is moving at the end of
the cast, that can be entirely different from the direction the tip stops.
*****The direction the tip travels from the beginning of the stroke to the
end determines where each part of the top leg will be directed. The very
final tip acceleration before RSP will determine the direction of the loop
when it forms, but changing the direction of the tip at the very end of a
stroke cannot magically redirect all the top leg line whose flight
direction was determined by tip motion much earlier in the stroke. Where
the fly actually lands will be some compromise between loop direction and
top leg direction.
(My comment: This is an important concept leading to an understanding of what happens when we make curve casts !......What Bruce says, above, becomes obvious as we watch the long distance curve cast made with a continuous curve motion throughout the stroke....the so-called, "corkscrew cast".... Gordy)
If I am making a long cast with a flexible rod, the bend and subsequent
recoil will be significant. After the recoil, the rod recovers (with
oscillations). Is the end of the recoil where the rod stopped or the
recovery position, or neither?
****If there is a tip "stop" if would be at the end of first counterflex.
That will determine bottom leg, oscillations after that just put waves in
the bottom leg.
(My comment: Bruce is correct....because this is the point at which the tip changes direction from that of counterflex to that of rebound. For that, there MUST be a stop, however brief.... Gordy)
Or do they just have different opinions? I don’t have the Borger book yet,
but does your answer below mean that the rod tip/hand "rules" are different
(assuming the length of casts are the same) if a vertical cast vs. a
horizontal cast is made? It probably is pretty late after doing it for
thirty five years to attempt an understanding of what you have been (or
should be) doing, nevertheless….
****The rules between vert. and horiz. casts aren't any different, hand
path and tip path are the same, just in different planes. I think the main
confusion here is that a lot of slow tip and hand motion is being mixed
with the important part, that within the actual casting stroke. To
understand this subject well the two must be separated, then it becomes
much clearer. The fact that so many experts explain this all so differently
certainly doesn't help to clarify...
Bruce
Thanks
Laurence
-----Original Message-----
From: Master Study [mailto:masterstudy@xxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 9:17 PM
To: 'G. Laurence Baggett'
Subject: RE: Straight vs level;
Laurence...
I'm sure you refer to diagrams 26 and 27 and 28 on pages 36, 37 & 38
of Lefty;s, "ADVANCED FLY CASTING".
This is a matter of interpreting what Lefty is saying. Firstly, note
that as his hand moves along the tilted board as it goes from the
base of his "arrow" to and from the arrow point, the hand actually
moves close to his body and then away from it as I demonstrated to
you with horizontal rod plane casting. When he says , "....as the
hand rises and travels straight back and away from the target" he's
describing a path of unwavering tracking which will result in good
tracking of his rod tip.
(My comment: No different, "rules", here.....just looks different because he's casting in a different rod plane. In the vertical rod plane, good tracking usually refers to no deviation to the right or left. When you cast in other rod planes, I suppose a more generic way of looking at good tracking is that there is no deviation at right angles to the rod plane. Much better, however, to have no deviation of the rod tip in or related to ANY PLANE.....which, afterall, gets us back to SLP ! ..... Gordy)