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    • Re: A brain teaser

    Walter....

    Yes....one can increase the casting arc for the amount of line carried in order to open up the loop......such as when casting weighted nymphs.   Best control of this comes when the arc is increased near the end of the stroke.

    In the event that the stroke length (the linear distance traveled by the hand) increases despite the fact that the length of line carried does not increase,  and assuming that the casting arc does not increase, the effect on the loop is less, though this does create a tendency to unload later and lower (below the oncoming line) which can open up the loop.  The cast is harder to control if this stroke length is a great deal longer than the length of line carried would ordinarily command.  This yields a less efficient cast, appears awkward, often results in the application of more energy than needed for the distance achieved even though that energy is spread over a greater distance.

    Good question !  Demands some deep thought.....and a couple of minutes to go out and do it.

                                                                         Gordy




     

    From: Walter Simbirski <simbirsw@xxxxxxx>
    To: Gordon Hill <hillshead@xxxxxxx>
    Subject: Re: A brain teaser
    Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 09:08:55 -0700

    Hey Gordy - glad to see you are back!
     
    This question dealt with the situation where the arc was so large that the caster lost control of the line. What about the case where the arc is longer than our normal casting stroke but still within the bounds of caster control. Other than opening up the loop are there times when we would intentionally increase the casting arc?
     
    Also, is it possible for the stroke (not the arc) to be too long?
     
    Thanks
     
    Walter
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Gordon Hill
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    Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2005 7:07 PM
    Subject: Re: A brain teaser

    Ron...

    I agree.

    Also check out my comments to Jim's answer.

                                                                      Gordy




     

    From: WALTER/SUE SIMBIRSKI <simbirsw@xxxxxxx>
    To: Gordon Hill <hillshead@xxxxxxx>
    Subject: Re: A brain teaser
    Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2005 11:40:31 -0700
    Hey Gordy - that is a really good question. My first inclination is to say that with
    the exception of a few people with really long arms (like maybe Tom) you can't have too long of a casting arc but that would be wrong on at least two counts - first and most importantly is that the arc is not determined by arm length (stroke length is dependent on arm length, flexibility, etc.).

    First of all lets define "casting arc is too long for the line carried" as any time the caster is not getting the desired line motion/action and it can be attributed to the length of the casting arc. Also, since you specifically say "for the line carried" I will talk about false casting.

    The combination of stroke length, arc length, and power application determine the loop formation. If the arc length is too long and power application and power remained the consistent for a longer amount of line then the rod wouldn't load as well and it would be difficult to maintain slp. The result would be doming. A talented caster could change his hand path to maintain slp but we already said we are considering the case where the arc is so large that the caster is losing control. The other option the caster would have is to increase power to add load to the rod but this would cause shock waves in the line after the stop (this is the extreme case we are talking about).

    The energy transfer to the line would also be very poor resulting in inaccurate casting and poor presentation (along with the doming).

    Cheers

    Walter

    From: Gordon Hill <hillshead@xxxxxxx>
    To: t.maltese@xxxxxxxxx, flysoup@xxxxxxxxxx, sobbobfish@xxxxxxx, rtab@xxxxxxx, CAPTPERMIT@xxxxxxx, creangler@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx, dwright@xxxxxxxxxxxx, daver@xxxxxxxxxx, dennisg@xxxxxxxxxxxx, captdoug@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, dsprague01@xxxxxxxxxxx, ephemera@xxxxxxx, brushycreekfc@xxxxxxxxx, keysjake@xxxxxxx, barefootj@xxxxxxx, bradyir@xxxxxxxxxxxxx, flyfishar@xxxxxxxxxxx, ken.cole@xxxxxxxxxxxxx, captkirk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, glbaggett@xxxxxxxxx, mkreider1@xxxxxxx, martyt@xxxxxxxxxx, niallogan@xxxxxxxxxx, pminnick@xxxxxxxxxxxxx, bigfly@xxxxxxxxx, whorwood@xxxxxxxxx, flycasts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx, sheila@xxxxxxxxxx, scjacobs@xxxxxxxxxxxx, tharper@xxxxxxxxxxx, tomwhite@xxxxxxxxxxxx
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    Subject: Re: A brain teaser
    Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2005 06:55:17 -0500

    Jim.....

    I agree.

    Now.....tell me what happens when the casting arc (rod arc) is too great for the amount of line carried.

    (I've noted a number of candidates who get stumped on that one.)

                                                                     Gordy

                                                                                  Gordy




     

    From: "jimpenrod" <t.maltese@xxxxxxxxx>
    To: "Gordon Hill" <hillshead@xxxxxxx>
    Subject: Re: A brain teaser
    Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 23:55:36 -0500

    Gordy,
     
    1 Stroke is the distance the hand travels from the front cast to the back cast while arc is the change in the angle of the rod butt from the front to the back cast (or back to front to be complete) The stroke length is varied dependent upon the amount of line being caried out of the tip of the rod-in general more line out the longer the stroke. If more line is carried and there is not change in the stroke distance one is eventually going to have a tailing loop (more power to keep the line airborne) or a collapsing loop (not enough power to keep the line airborne) Mel Krieger has referred to a variable arc,  that is to say as more or less line  is carried and the stoke distance changes so does the arc.
    Jim
    ----- Original Message -----
    Cc: mildbill@xxxxxxxxxxxx ; caddis@xxxxxxx ; Brydnlnims@xxxxxxxxxxx ; cezannealexander@xxxxxxxxxxx ; crazycharlie@xxxxxxx ; croberts@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; blacksalmon@xxxxxxxxxxx ; DermSox@xxxxxxx ; gladesflybum@xxxxxxxxxxxx ; gavin@xxxxxxxxxxx ; hillshead@xxxxxxx ; iverson@xxxxxxxxx ; jfs523@xxxxxxxxxxx ; jerry_puckett2001@xxxxxxxxx ; kathleen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; thedamselfly@xxxxxxxxxxx ; plami@xxxxxxxxxxx ; ray@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; kerrrc@xxxxxxxxx ; simbirsw@xxxxxxx ; bobbeanblossomFFF@xxxxxxxxxxx ; hillcathy@xxxxxxx ; donjack@xxxxxxxxxxx ; douglas.swift@xxxxxxxxxxxx ; erniemaynard@xxxxxxxxxxx ; flyfsfrank@xxxxxxx ; hlpc@xxxxxxx ; jeff@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; t.maltese@xxxxxxxxx ; skifishvail@xxxxxxxx ; jfv@xxxxxxxxxxxx ; trallag@xxxxxxx ; captflyrod@xxxxxxx ; mollysemenik@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; paul@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; fraudflies@xxxxxxx ; shane@xxxxxxxxx ; snowmonkey29@xxxxxxx
    Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 9:10 PM
    Subject: FW: A brain teaser

    Group...

    These are good basic foundation questions posed by Tom White.  Let's have as many of you as possible send in answers.

                                                                Gordy

    From: "Gordon Hill"
    <hillshead@xxxxxxx>
    Subject: FW: A brain teaser
    Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 20:57:37 -0500

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Gordon Hill
    Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 7:26 AM
    To: 'Tom White'

    Subject: RE: A brain teaser    -----Original Message-----
    From: Tom White [mailto:tomw1483@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
    Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 5:25 PM
    To: 'Gordon Hill'
    Subject: A brain teaser

    Gordie;

    Here is a topic I would like introduced to your study group.

     

    The Casting Arc as it relates to changes in distance and its relationship to the stroke length.

     

    1.)  Define stroke.

     

    2.) Define Arc.

     

    3.) Why do we vary the length of the stroke?

     

    4.) Why/when do we vary the degree of arc?

     

    This is a topic that isn?t emphasized enough. It is the key to loop shaping, loop size, rod loading, the degree of acceleration that is applied during the cast, and of course distance ? or presentation.

     

     

     

    Thanks;

    Tom White


    Capt. Tom White
    PO Box 500085
    Marathon, Fl. 33050

    305-743-0055

    Cell: 305-304-8540

    tomwhite@xxxxxxxxxxxx  www.tomwhite.com


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