Jeff....
With your competition casting, I'll bet you have found that out yourself.......For practical purposes, I think you are probably right.
Now consider this:
Lets say I buy a rod with a definite spline.....and we'll make the assumption that it's enough to make a tiny difference in my distance and accuracy. In the event that I practice with this rod over a significant period of time (as we did years ago when blanks would vary a great deal), I suspect that I could probably make some semi-concscious adjustments in my casting to at least take care of the accuracy problem. I'm not so sure about the distance.
Interesting stuff !
Gordy
From: Jeff Wagner <jeff@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: Gordon Hill <hillshead@xxxxxxx>
CC: simbirsw@xxxxxxx, flysoup@xxxxxxxxxx, sobbobfish@xxxxxxx, rtab@xxxxxxx,CAPTPERMIT@xxxxxxx, creangler@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx, dwright@xxxxxxxxxxxx,daver@xxxxxxxxxx, dennisg@xxxxxxxxxxxx, captdoug@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,dsprague01@xxxxxxxxxxx, ephemera@xxxxxxx, brushycreekfc@xxxxxxxxx,keysjake@xxxxxxx, barefootj@xxxxxxx, bradyir@xxxxxxxxxxxxx,flyfishar@xxxxxxxxxxx, ken.cole@xxxxxxxxxxxxx, captkirk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,glbaggett@xxxxxxxxx, mkreider1@xxxxxxx, martyt@xxxxxxxxxx,niallogan@xxxxxxxxxx, pminnick@xxxxxxxxxxxxx, bigfly@xxxxxxxxx,whorwood@xxxxxxxxx, flycasts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx, sheila@xxxxxxxxxx,scjacobs@xxxxxxxxxxxx, tharper@xxxxxxxxxxx, tomwhite@xxxxxxxxxxxx,mildbill@xxxxxxxxxxxx, caddis@xxxxxxx, Brydnlnims@xxxxxxxxxxx,cezannealexander@xxxxxxxxxxx, crazycharlie@xxxxxxx,croberts@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, blacksalmon@xxxxxxxxxxx, DermSox@xxxxxxx,gladesflybum@xxxxxxxxxxxx, iverson@xxxxxxxxx, jfs523@xxxxxxxxxxx,jerry_puckett2001@xxxxxxxxx, kathleen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,thedamselfly@xxxxxxxxxxx, plami@xxxxxxxxxxx, ray@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,kerrrc@xxxxxxxxx, bobbeanblossom@xxxxxxx, hillcathy@xxxxxxx,donjack@xxxxxxxxxxx, douglas.swift@xxxxxxxxxxxx, erniemaynard@xxxxxxxxxxx,flyfsfrank@xxxxxxx, gregrahe@xxxxxxxxxxx, ianmuirhead@xxxxxxx,t.maltese@xxxxxxxxx, skifishvail@xxxxxxxx, jfv@xxxxxxxxxxxx,trallag@xxxxxxx, mollysemenik@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,paul@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, fraudflies@xxxxxxx, shane@xxxxxxxxx,snowmonkey29@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Re: Re: SPLINES (SPINES)
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 12:12:04 -0600
Group,
For those that turn the guides (the spine) for distance casting it doesn't
effect the distance of the casting or the loop or the accuracy at all!
Jeff Wagner
Master Certified Fly Casting Instructor, Federation of Fly Fishers
Fly Fishing Buyer, Jax Outdoor Gear
Fly Fishing Guide, Jax Outdoor Gear
Redington Pro Staff
Quoting Gordon Hill <hillshead@xxxxxxx>:
>
>
> Walter.....
>
> That probably is a practical way to go.....much easier for 2
>reasons, now....1.) New manufacturing methods eliminates all but a
>very little spline. 2.) With 4 pc models, you can rotate the first
>3
>segments starting with the tip so the spline of one segment can
>oppose
>and sort of neutralize another. (Just a supposition on my part)
>
>
> Gordy
>
>-------------------------
> From: _Walter Simbirski _
>To: _Gordon Hill _
>Subject: _Re: Re: Re: SPLINES (SPINES)_
>Date: _Mon, 12 Sep 2005 20:30:41 -0600_
>
> Gordy - I've had the chance to inspect some Sage blanks and they
>use
>the straightest rod approach. Makes it easiest to line up the
>guides.
>----- ORIGINAL MESSAGE ----- FROM: Gordon Hill TO:
>flysoup@xxxxxxxxxx ; sobbobfish@xxxxxxx ; rtab@xxxxxxx ;
>CAPTPERMIT@xxxxxxx ; creangler@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; dwright@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>; daver@xxxxxxxxxx ; dennisg@xxxxxxxxxxxx ;
>captdoug@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; dsprague01@xxxxxxxxxxx ;
>ephemera@xxxxxxx ; brushycreekfc@xxxxxxxxx ; keysjake@xxxxxxx ;
>barefootj@xxxxxxx ; bradyir@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ; flyfishar@xxxxxxxxxxx ;
>ken.cole@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ; captkirk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ;
>glbaggett@xxxxxxxxx ; mkreider1@xxxxxxx ; martyt@xxxxxxxxxx ;
>niallogan@xxxxxxxxxx ; pminnick@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ; bigfly@xxxxxxxxx ;
>whorwood@xxxxxxxxx ; flycasts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ; sheila@xxxxxxxxxx ;
>scjacobs@xxxxxxxxxxxx ; tharper@xxxxxxxxxxx ; tomwhite@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>CC: mildbill@xxxxxxxxxxxx ; caddis@xxxxxxx ; Brydnlnims@xxxxxxxxxxx
>;
>cezannealexander@xxxxxxxxxxx ; crazycharlie@xxxxxxx ;
>croberts@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; blacksalmon@xxxxxxxxxxx ; DermSox@xxxxxxx
>; gladesflybum@xxxxxxxxxxxx ; hillshead@xxxxxxx ; iverson@xxxxxxxxx
>;
>jfs523@xxxxxxxxxxx ; jerry_puckett2001@xxxxxxxxx ;
>kathleen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; thedamselfly@xxxxxxxxxxx ;
>plami@xxxxxxxxxxx ; ray@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; kerrrc@xxxxxxxxx ;
>simbirsw@xxxxxxx ; bobbeanblossom@xxxxxxx ; hillcathy@xxxxxxx ;
>donjack@xxxxxxxxxxx ; douglas.swift@xxxxxxxxxxxx ;
>erniemaynard@xxxxxxxxxxx ; flyfsfrank@xxxxxxx ; gregrahe@xxxxxxxxxxx
>; ianmuirhead@xxxxxxx ; jeff@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; t.maltese@xxxxxxxxx
>;
>skifishvail@xxxxxxxx ; jfv@xxxxxxxxxxxx ; trallag@xxxxxxx ;
>mollysemenik@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; paul@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ;
>fraudflies@xxxxxxx ; shane@xxxxxxxxx ; snowmonkey29@xxxxxxx SENT:
>Monday, September 12, 2005 6:32 PM SUBJECT: FW: Re: Re: SPLINES
>(SPINES)
>
>-------------------------
> From: _"JEFFERY BAREFOOT" _
>To: _"Gordon Hill" _
>Subject: _Re: Re: SPLINES (SPINES)_
>Date: _Mon, 12 Sep 2005 20:29:42 -0400_
>
> Paul, What sage does is position the sections to make
>the
>rod look the straightest. It may have been Bill Dawson that told me
>that. Jeff ----- Original Message ----- FROM: Gordon
>Hill TO: paul@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; flysoup@xxxxxxxxxx ;
>sobbobfish@xxxxxxx ; rtab@xxxxxxx ; CAPTPERMIT@xxxxxxx ;
>creangler@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; dwright@xxxxxxxxxxxx ; daver@xxxxxxxxxx ;
>dennisg@xxxxxxxxxxxx ; captdoug@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ;
>dsprague01@xxxxxxxxxxx ; ephemera@xxxxxxx ; brushycreekfc@xxxxxxxxx
>;
>keysjake@xxxxxxx ; barefootj@xxxxxxx ; bradyir@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ;
>flyfishar@xxxxxxxxxxx ; ken.cole@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ;
>captkirk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; glbaggett@xxxxxxxxx ;
>mkreider1@xxxxxxx
>; martyt@xxxxxxxxxx ; niallogan@xxxxxxxxxx ; pminnick@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>;
>bigfly@xxxxxxxxx ; whorwood@xxxxxxxxx ; flycasts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ;
>sheila@xxxxxxxxxx ; scjacobs@xxxxxxxxxxxx ; tharper@xxxxxxxxxxx ;
>tomwhite@xxxxxxxxxxxx CC: mildbill@xxxxxxxxxxxx ; caddis@xxxxxxx ;
>Brydnlnims@xxxxxxxxxxx ; cezannealexander@xxxxxxxxxxx ;
>crazycharlie@xxxxxxx ; croberts@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ;
>blacksalmon@xxxxxxxxxxx ; DermSox@xxxxxxx ;
>gladesflybum@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>; hillshead@xxxxxxx ; iverson@xxxxxxxxx ; jfs523@xxxxxxxxxxx ;
>jerry_puckett2001@xxxxxxxxx ; kathleen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ;
>thedamselfly@xxxxxxxxxxx ; plami@xxxxxxxxxxx ;
>ray@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; kerrrc@xxxxxxxxx ; simbirsw@xxxxxxx ;
>bobbeanblossom@xxxxxxx ; hillcathy@xxxxxxx ; donjack@xxxxxxxxxxx ;
>douglas.swift@xxxxxxxxxxxx ; erniemaynard@xxxxxxxxxxx ;
>flyfsfrank@xxxxxxx ; gregrahe@xxxxxxxxxxx ; ianmuirhead@xxxxxxx ;
>jeff@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; t.maltese@xxxxxxxxx ; skifishvail@xxxxxxxx ;
>jfv@xxxxxxxxxxxx ; trallag@xxxxxxx ;
>mollysemenik@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; fraudflies@xxxxxxx ;
>shane@xxxxxxxxx ; snowmonkey29@xxxxxxx SENT: Monday, September 12,
>2005 8:17 PM SUBJECT: Re: Re: SPLINES (SPINES)
>
> Paul.....
>
> Ahhhh....yes !
>
> Gordy
>
>-------------------------
> From: _"Paul Arden" _
>Reply-To: _"Paul Arden" _
>To: _"Gordon Hill" _
>Subject: _Re: Re: SPLINES (SPINES)_
>Date: _Mon, 5 Sep 2005 07:57:36 +0100_
>Hi Gordy,
>quick one on point 7, as far as I'm aware, you can only check the
>spine with no ringing,
>ie blank only. I don't know who spines, but I do know that Sage
>don't.
>Cheers,
>Paul
>
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Gordon Hill"
>To: ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;
>Cc: ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;
>;
>; ; ;
>Sent: Sunday, September 04, 2005 6:38 PM
>Subject: FW: Re: SPLINES (SPINES)
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>From: Walter Simbirski To: Gordon Hill Subject: Re: SPLINES
>>(SPINES)
>>Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2005 03:03:56 -0600
>>
>>
>>Gordy - Putting the stiffest side of the blank on the thumb side
>>does provide the best accuracy when casting
>>for all the reasons you mention. Also when playing a fish you want
>>the stiff side on the away from the fish
>>to reduce the tendency of the rod to twist. If the rod has a
>>noticeable spine the tendency to twist can be significant
>>leading to a death grip on the rod and increased fatigue.
>>For most people (those who haven't had proper training and taken
>>the time
>>to practice) the rod will cast farther if the orientation is
>>reversed for two reasons. The obvious one is that you can load
>>extra
>
>>energy into the rod on the forward cast (which is the usual casting
>>direction). The other reason is that many people do not have
>>symmetric forward and backward casts. Their back cast is
>>weaker so they are not able to make use of extra stiffness and also
>>when they do their final forward cast they tend to increase their
>>forward casting arc.
>>Walter
>>PS - the quizzes are great! Keep em coming.
>>----- Original Message ----- From: Gordon Hill To:
>>tomw1483@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ; flysoup@xxxxxxxxxx ; sobbobfish@xxxxxxx ;
>>rtab@xxxxxxx ; CAPTPERMIT@xxxxxxx ; creangler@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx ;
>>dwright@xxxxxxxxxxxx ; daver@xxxxxxxxxx ; dennisg@xxxxxxxxxxxx ;
>>captdoug@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; dsprague01@xxxxxxxxxxx ;
>>ephemera@xxxxxxx ; brushycreekfc@xxxxxxxxx ; keysjake@xxxxxxx ;
>>barefootj@xxxxxxx ; bradyir@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ; flyfishar@xxxxxxxxxxx ;
>>ken.cole@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ; captkirk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ;
>>glbaggett@xxxxxxxxx ; mkreider1@xxxxxxx ; martyt@xxxxxxxxxx ;
>>niallogan@xxxxxxxxxx ; pminnick@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ; bigfly@xxxxxxxxx ;
>>whorwood@xxxxxxxxx ; flycasts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ; sheila@xxxxxxxxxx ;
>>scjacobs@xxxxxxxxxxxx ; tharper@xxxxxxxxxxx ; tomwhite@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>>Cc: mildbill@xxxxxxxxxxxx ; caddis@xxxxxxx ; Brydnlnims@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>; cezannealexander@xxxxxxxxxxx ; crazycharlie@xxxxxxx ;
>>croberts@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; blacksalmon@xxxxxxxxxxx ;
>>DermSox@xxxxxxx
>
>>; gladesflybum@xxxxxxxxxxxx ; hillshead@xxxxxxx ; iverson@xxxxxxxxx
>>; jfs523@xxxxxxxxxxx ; jerry_puckett2001@xxxxxxxxx ;
>>kathleen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; thedamselfly@xxxxxxxxxxx ;
>>plami@xxxxxxxxxxx ; ray@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; kerrrc@xxxxxxxxx ;
>>simbirsw@xxxxxxx ; bobbeanblossom@xxxxxxx ; hillcathy@xxxxxxx ;
>>donjack@xxxxxxxxxxx ; douglas.swift@xxxxxxxxxxxx ;
>>erniemaynard@xxxxxxxxxxx ; flyfsfrank@xxxxxxx ;
>>gregrahe@xxxxxxxxxxx
>
>>; ianmuirhead@xxxxxxx ; jeff@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; t.maltese@xxxxxxxxx
>>; skifishvail@xxxxxxxx ; jfv@xxxxxxxxxxxx ; trallag@xxxxxxx ;
>>mollysemenik@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; paul@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ;
>>fraudflies@xxxxxxx ; shane@xxxxxxxxx ; snowmonkey29@xxxxxxx Sent:
>>Saturday, September 03, 2005 2:37 PM
>>Subject: RE: SPLINES (SPINES)
>>
>>
>>Tom....
>>
>>I'd have agreed on that in the past. The slight softening in the
>>other direction is to be considered, also. I used to think, too,
>>that this might help tracking.
>>
>>Theoretically, if the spline is oriented on the side of the
>>caster's thumb OR directly on the opposite side....not off an some
>>other angle, it ought to help tracking, whereas if it is say 90
>>degrees off the casting rod plane, it then should provide a
>>tendency
>
>>for the rod to twist on either the pickup or the forward cast. I'd
>>think THAT would lead to bad tracking of the rod tip. This is what
>>Don Phillips called an, "eccentric spine". (p 67 of his book.) The
>>articles I've read on the subject show no real agreement, however.
>>
>>Don feels that any "selective stiffening" (like with a significant
>>spline anywhere on the blank) yields a blank which is basically
>>unstable. In that case, he says, "...Unless the fly rod is
>
>>restrained from twisting throughout its length, the rod will tend
>>to
>
>>flop over to its orientation of least resistance:..........." He
>>goes on to say that with casting, this, ".....involves repetitive,
>>reversing flexure, the rod tip oscillates from side to side during
>>the forward and rearward casting strokes as the tip twists and
>>untwists. This oscillation hurts both casting distance and
>>accuracy, since the fly line unfailingly follows the rod tip
>>motion."
>>
>>I suppose, this is the reason that modern rod makers have taken
>>pains to minimize or eleminate ANY residual spline rather than
>>taking the path of controlling its location as they did in the past
>>when the technology hadn't developed to the point of virtually
>>eliminating it.
>>
>>Don goes in to the many reasons for spline including blank void
>>inclusions, pattern edge ridge, and overall rod warp due to curing
>>with residual internal stresses, fiber-resin de-bonding, and
>>asymmetrical masses of resin. Each represents manufacturing
>>imperfection. He gives the distinct impression that any significant
>>spline at all is the result of poor blank manufacture.
>>
>>For a lot more detail, including the theory of secondary splines,
>>read his entire Chapter 7.
>>
>>Randy Swisher could probably give us the latest info from Sage on
>>this subject. I'll ask him.
>>
>>
>>Gordy
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>From: "Tom White" To: "'Gordon Hill'" Subject: RE: SPLINES (SPINES)
>>Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 14:13:50 -0400
>>
>>
>>Gordie;
>>
>>I have a question on # 3-a&b.
>>If the "BOW" is up on a blank, and you place the guides on the
>>bottom;
>>You would have more "Power" on the pick up cast, and softer on the
>>forward cast.
>>Also better tracking on the forward cast.
>>
>>This is the way I see it. I might have mis-read this mail?
>>
>>Tom
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Capt. Tom White
>>PO Box 500085
>>Marathon, Fl. 33050
>>
>>305-743-0055
>>
>>Cell: 305-304-8540
>>
>>tomwhite@xxxxxxxxxxxx www.tomwhite.com
>>
>>
>>FFF Certified Casting Instructors Workshop (CCI)November 2005
>>FFF MASTERS Workshop November 2005
>>
>>Ascension Bay Bonefish Club Salt Water Workshop, Dec. 2005
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Gordon Hill [mailto:hillshead@xxxxxxx] Sent: Saturday,
>>September 03, 2005 1:59 PM
>>To: simbirsw@xxxxxxx; flysoup@xxxxxxxxxx; sobbobfish@xxxxxxx;
>>rtab@xxxxxxx; CAPTPERMIT@xxxxxxx; creangler@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx;
>>dwright@xxxxxxxxxxxx; daver@xxxxxxxxxx; dennisg@xxxxxxxxxxxx;
>>captdoug@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; dsprague01@xxxxxxxxxxx;
>>ephemera@xxxxxxx; brushycreekfc@xxxxxxxxx; keysjake@xxxxxxx;
>>barefootj@xxxxxxx; bradyir@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; flyfishar@xxxxxxxxxxx;
>>ken.cole@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; captkirk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx;
>>glbaggett@xxxxxxxxx; mkreider1@xxxxxxx; martyt@xxxxxxxxxx;
>>niallogan@xxxxxxxxxx; pminnick@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; bigfly@xxxxxxxxx;
>>whorwood@xxxxxxxxx; flycasts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; sheila@xxxxxxxxxx;
>>scjacobs@xxxxxxxxxxxx; tharper@xxxxxxxxxxx; tomwhite@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>>Cc: mildbill@xxxxxxxxxxxx; caddis@xxxxxxx; Brydnlnims@xxxxxxxxxxx;
>>cezannealexander@xxxxxxxxxxx; crazycharlie@xxxxxxx;
>>croberts@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; blacksalmon@xxxxxxxxxxx; DermSox@xxxxxxx;
>>gladesflybum@xxxxxxxxxxxx;
>
>>hillshead@xxxxxxx; iverson@xxxxxxxxx; jfs523@xxxxxxxxxxx;
>>jerry_puckett2001@xxxxxxxxx; kathleen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx;
>>thedamselfly@xxxxxxxxxxx; plami@xxxxxxxxxxx;
>>ray@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; kerrrc@xxxxxxxxx; bobbeanblossom@xxxxxxx;
>>hillcathy@xxxxxxx; donjack@xxxxxxxxxxx; douglas.swift@xxxxxxxxxxxx;
>>erniemaynard@xxxxxxxxxxx; flyfsfrank@xxxxxxx; gregrahe@xxxxxxxxxxx;
>>ianmuirhead@xxxxxxx; jeff@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; t.maltese@xxxxxxxxx;
>>skifishvail@xxxxxxxx; jfv@xxxxxxxxxxxx; trallag@xxxxxxx;
>>mollysemenik@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; paul@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx;
>>fraudflies@xxxxxxx; shane@xxxxxxxxx; snowmonkey29@xxxxxxx
>>Subject: Re: SPLINES (SPINES)
>>
>>
>>Walter....
>>
>>This is by far the best set of answers I got !
>>
>>As far as I know, the only rods which were made without any spline,
>>were the tubular metal rods, including the beryllium copper
>>step-tapered fly rods of 1940.
>>
>>I consulted Jeffrey L. Haton's new book, "ROD CRAFTING, A FULL
>>COLOR PICTORIAL AND WRITTEN HISTORY FROM 1843 - 1960", since he had
>>many examples of greenheart and other composite wood fly
>>rods.....but found no mention of splines.
>>
>>
>>Gordy
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>From: Walter Simbirski To: Gordon Hill Subject: Re: SPLINES
>>(SPINES)
>>Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 20:48:06 -0600
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>
>>From: Gordon Hill
>>To: flysoup@xxxxxxxxxx ; sobbobfish@xxxxxxx ; rtab@xxxxxxx ;
>>CAPTPERMIT@xxxxxxx ; creangler@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx ;
>>dwright@xxxxxxxxxxxx ; daver@xxxxxxxxxx ; dennisg@xxxxxxxxxxxx ;
>>captdoug@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; dsprague01@xxxxxxxxxxx ;
>>ephemera@xxxxxxx ; brushycreekfc@xxxxxxxxx ; keysjake@xxxxxxx ;
>>barefootj@xxxxxxx ; bradyir@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ; flyfishar@xxxxxxxxxxx ;
>>ken.cole@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ; captkirk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ;
>>glbaggett@xxxxxxxxx ; mkreider1@xxxxxxx ; martyt@xxxxxxxxxx ;
>>niallogan@xxxxxxxxxx ; pminnick@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ; bigfly@xxxxxxxxx ;
>>whorwood@xxxxxxxxx ; flycasts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ; sheila@xxxxxxxxxx ;
>>scjacobs@xxxxxxxxxxxx ; tharper@xxxxxxxxxxx ; tomwhite@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>>Cc: mildbill@xxxxxxxxxxxx ; caddis@xxxxxxx ; Brydnlnims@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>; cezannealexander@xxxxxxxxxxx ; crazycharlie@xxxxxxx ;
>>croberts@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; blacksalmon@xxxxxxxxxxx ;
>>DermSox@xxxxxxx ; gladesflybum@xxxxxxxxxxxx ; hillshead@xxxxxxx ;
>>iverson@xxxxxxxxx ; jfs523@xxxxxxxxxxx ;
>>jerry_puckett2001@xxxxxxxxx ; kathleen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ;
>>thedamselfly@xxxxxxxxxxx ; plami@xxxxxxxxxxx ;
>>ray@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; kerrrc@xxxxxxxxx ; simbirsw@xxxxxxx ;
>>bobbeanblossom@xxxxxxx ; hillcathy@xxxxxxx ; donjack@xxxxxxxxxxx ;
>>douglas.swift@xxxxxxxxxxxx ; erniemaynard@xxxxxxxxxxx ;
>>flyfsfrank@xxxxxxx ; gregrahe@xxxxxxxxxxx
>
>>; ianmuirhead@xxxxxxx ; jeff@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; t.maltese@xxxxxxxxx
>>; skifishvail@xxxxxxxx ; jfv@xxxxxxxxxxxx ; trallag@xxxxxxx ;
>>mollysemenik@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; paul@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ;
>>fraudflies@xxxxxxx ; shane@xxxxxxxxx ; snowmonkey29@xxxxxxx
>>Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 3:32 PM
>>
>>Subject: SPLINES (SPINES)
>>
>>
>>Hi, Group....
>>
>>Let's discuss the fly-rod SPLINE. (Some, such as Don Phillips,
>>prefer to call it the SPINE.)
>>
>>1.) What is it ?
>>
>>Due to manufacturing issues graphite blanks do not come with
>>perfectly uniform walls. Grpahite comes in long
>>
>>thin strands which are packed around a scrim wrapped arbor. The
>>whole is then wrapped with cellophane and
>>
>>then hardened chemically and with heat to create a rod blank.
>>During the process the arbor/scrim combination
>>
>>will not be perfectly centered in the graphite blank. The result is
>>that one side if the rod will be a bit stiffer than
>>the other sides. This can be felt by bending the rod and then
>>rolling it while it is bent.
>>
>>
>>2.) On which side of the blank do most rod manufactures place it as
>>they make up a rod ?
>>
>>Most rod manufacturers actually look for the orientation in which
>>the rod is straightest when sighted down
>>
>>the length of the rod. This makes it easier to align the guides
>>when wrapping the rod. This is generally
>>
>>assumed to be the stiffest side of the rod but may not coincide
>>with the spine as identifed in the
>>
>>previous answer.
>>
>>
>>Another test for rod spine is to stand the blank section up
>>perpendicular with one end resting on the floor.
>>If you press straight down on the other end of the blank section it
>>will consistently bend in one direction.
>>This will tend to agree with the spine identified by straightness.
>>
>>Guides are usually lined up with the stiff side of the blank or
>>opposite the stiff side. (Some rod builders will
>>
>>align the guides at 90 degrees to the stiff side of the blank but
>>usually it is on or opposite the stiff side).
>>
>>Lining up the guides on the stiff side gives the fastest rod action
>>but the rod may twist in some cases and a
>>
>>ffect casting accuracy or the action of the rod when playing a
>>fish. Putting the guides on the opposite side
>>will make the rod a bit slower but it tends to cast more accurately
>>and doesn't roll or twist when playing a fish.
>>
>>
>>With the tendency towards faster rods most rod manufacturers place
>>the guides on the stiffest side of the
>>blank as identified by blank straightness or the test described two
>>paragraphs earlier (i.e. not the test
>>
>>described in question 1)
>>
>>3.) What is its effect ?
>>
>>a. In picking up line for a back cast?
>>
>>Following the guides on the stiff side scenario this would make the
>>rod slightly slower on the back
>>
>>cast. This would make the pick up less noisy on the water.
>>
>>b. In making a forward cast. ?
>>
>>Maximum stiffness in the direction of the forward cast would
>>maximize energy transfer and distance. A lot
>>
>>of people like to turn the rod 90 degrees when casting to avoid
>>line slap and/or for biomechanical reasons
>>
>>so the spine will not be providing them any benefit.
>>
>>4.) Does placement of the spline (spine) have any effect on
>>tracking ?
>>
>>Not of the rod hand but it can improve tracking of the rod tip.The
>>amount of the effect depends on the difference
>>
>>between the spine and the rest of the rod.
>>
>>5.) You have two graphite fly rods. Both are top-of-the-line rods
>>made by a well reputed rod company. One was purchased 15 years
>>ago.....you bought the other yesterday.
>>
>>Question: Is there likely to be any difference in the splines
>>(spines) between these two rods ?
>>
>>Yep - improvements in manufacturing methods has reduced the
>>erratics in the wall thickeness. This makes the spine
>>
>>less noticeable. Some manufacturers claim a Uniform Wall Thickness
>>but from what I've seen a perfectly uniform wall
>>
>>every time is still not guaranteed.
>>
>>6.) Do most bamboo rods have a defined spline ?
>>
>>Yes. Bamboo rods are typically made up of 6 triangular pieces
>>resulting in a hexagonal cross section. While the rod builders
>>
>>do everything they can to have uniform stiffness in each of the 6
>>pieces there will be discrepancies introduced by growth
>>
>>rings etc.
>>
>>
>>7.) How do you find it ?
>>
>>I know of 4 methods. 3 I've already described. The 4th one I know
>>of is to suspend the blank horizontally at the butt end.
>>
>>A small weight is attached to the tip end and then the blank is
>>rotated. The spine is identified when minimal deflection is
>>
>>found in the blank.
>>
>>Two good references for this information, are Dale Clemens book on
>>rod building, and Don Phillips, "The Technology of fly Rods".
>>
>>
>>Gordy
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >
>>
>
>
>
>Links:
>------
>[2] mailto:barefootj@xxxxxxx
>[3] mailto:hillshead@xxxxxxx
>