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    • FW: Re: Grips






     

    From: "JEFFERY BAREFOOT" <barefootj@xxxxxxx>
    To: "Gordon Hill" <hillshead@xxxxxxx>
    Subject: Re: Grips
    Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 09:00:18 -0400

     
    Gordy,
     
    I'm glad I saved this pic.  Hope you are weathering the storms OK.
     
    Jeff
     
     
     
     
    ----- Original Message -----
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    Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 9:29 AM
    Subject: Re: Grips

    Walter.....

    Jeffery Barefoot taught this to us when he came down to Big Pine Key for a few days of casting a couple of years ago......then he sent a very clear picture showing it, on April 13 'o5.  This was prior to you and some others joining the Group.

    I have that picture, but lost those messages when my computer crashed....I do have hard copy....but no scanner.

    Perhaps Jeff or one of the others who did save this message and it's picture could forward it to the Group so you and the other newer members could have it (??).

    With this grip, the index finger is a tiny bit to the side of being on top......not on the cork handle, but on the shaft of the butt section of the rod with the ball of the finger about 1 1/2" beyond the cork.  The thumb is open and not touching anything.  The 3rd finger is somewhat extended, and doesn't grip anything, either.  The 4th and 5th fingers grip the cork on the side opposite the index finger.

    I don't have a literature reference for this.

    Moser was, I've been told, at a fly casting event in Pennsylvania this spring, demonstrating his techniques.

    We did find that it was really good for teaching smooth casting with the use of no more force than necessary for most casts.

                                                                        Gordy




     

    From: Walter Simbirski <simbirsw@xxxxxxx>
    To: Gordon Hill <hillshead@xxxxxxx>
    Subject: Re: Grips
    Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 16:00:12 -0600

    Gordy - What is the Roman Moser grip?
    ----- Original Message -----
    Cc: mildbill@xxxxxxxxxxxx ; caddis@xxxxxxx ; Brydnlnims@xxxxxxxxxxx ; cezannealexander@xxxxxxxxxxx ; crazycharlie@xxxxxxx ; croberts@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; blacksalmon@xxxxxxxxxxx ; DermSox@xxxxxxx ; gladesflybum@xxxxxxxxxxxx ; hillshead@xxxxxxx ; iverson@xxxxxxxxx ; jfs523@xxxxxxxxxxx ; jerry_puckett2001@xxxxxxxxx ; kathleen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; thedamselfly@xxxxxxxxxxx ; plami@xxxxxxxxxxx ; ray@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; kerrrc@xxxxxxxxx ; simbirsw@xxxxxxx ; bobbeanblossom@xxxxxxx ; hillcathy@xxxxxxx ; donjack@xxxxxxxxxxx ; douglas.swift@xxxxxxxxxxxx ; erniemaynard@xxxxxxxxxxx ; flyfsfrank@xxxxxxx ; gregrahe@xxxxxxxxxxx ; ianmuirhead@xxxxxxx ; jeff@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; skifishvail@xxxxxxxx ; jfv@xxxxxxxxxxxx ; trallag@xxxxxxx ; mollysemenik@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; paul@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; fraudflies@xxxxxxx ; shane@xxxxxxxxx ; snowmonkey29@xxxxxxx
    Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 10:13 AM
    Subject: RE: Grips

    Jim......

    My comments in BOLD TYPE in your text, below.

    I selected your answers, Jim, because they were by far the best ones !

                                                                    Gordy




     

    From: "jimpenrod" <t.maltese@xxxxxxxxx>
    To: "Gordon Hill" <hillshead@xxxxxxx>
    Subject: Grips
    Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 22:33:40 -0400

    1. Grip is a matter of style although there are certain grips which one could consider more appropriate for certain situations.
     
    AGREE.
     
    2a.Finger of top-good for accuracy (easy to use your fingertip as the pointer) but not sufficient power for really long casts. Rick Hefele says it is very accurate but Jaworowski does not agree.  And Jason Borger throws in a third opinion.  Could it depend on the caster??
     
    GOOD FOR SHORT DISTANCE ACCURACY.  AGAIN, SINCE IT IS A MATTER OF STYLE, IT WILL DEPEND UPON THE CASTER.
     
      b. Good for power and makes use of the thumb muscles.  It can be helpful in opening a loop when using a large fly.  However, it is also easy to have some rotation at the stops and tiny curves at the end of the back or front casts (boy do I know all about that-almost a Master!)
     
    YES.  ANOTHER DISADVANTAGE OF THE THUMB-ON-TOP GRIP IS THAT IT IS EASIER FOR THE CASTER TO DROP THE ROD TIP ON THE BACK CAST.
     
    c. Free wrist grip-neither finger nor thumb is extended.  It does not take advantage of the muscles of the hand and as pointed out in Joan Wulff's book it may have been useful when casting with the arm pressed against the side and the wrist bent back farther on the backcast.
     
    I SEE NO ADVANTAGE TO THIS GRIP.  IT YIELDS POOR CONTROL.
     
    d. Three point grip-better overall control, helpful to people who have trouble with "wristing".  To many it has an odd feel. It does provide good power. Less likely to have small lateral rotations of the rod as you might with the thumb on top grip.
     
    YES.
     
    e. V-grip-similar to the three point grip but the thumb and index finger are split more to the side with the V formed by the interdigital space. 
     
    YES.  SAME ADVANTAGES AND DISADVANTAGES.
     
    f. TLT grip-crowding the reel grip to the point of wrapping the reel.  Named the TLT after Robert Pragliola's Tecnica di Lancio Totale. It reportedly gives you a better feel for the line coming off the rod tip, gives the longest possible rod length from the hand and thus the greatest possible movement of the rod tip for the arm movement made and allows you to mend with maximum efficiency per Jason Borger. It can have an odd and uncomfortable feel and takes some getting used to.
     
    AGREE.  AS WITH ANY REEL CROWDING GRIP, IT'LL FREEZE YOUR BARE HAND ON A COLD WINDY DAY IF YOU HAVE A METAL REEL SEAT !
     
     
    g. Roman Moser grip-helpful to people who apply to much power.  Also good for getting people to make an abrupt stop.  When I tried this grip I kept feeling as though the rod was going to fall out of my hand. 
     
    YES.  TAKES PRACTICE TO USE THIS WELL.  GETS A LOT EASIER ONCE YOU USE IT FOR A WHILE.  ONE DISADVANTAGE, FOR ME, IS THAT I CAN'T GET NEARLY THE DISTANCE WITH IT, SINCE I CAN'T CARRY AS MUCH LINE OR BUTT-LOAD THE ROD WELL.  IT'S A GREAT TEACHING-TOOL GRIP TO GET THE STUDENT TO MAKE MEDIUM DISTANCE CASTS WITH MORE FINESS AND MINIMUM APPLICATION OF FORCE.
     
    h. Primary grip-
     
    ANOTHER TERM FOR THE THUMB-ON-TOP GRIP. ( P 1207, TROUT BY ERNIE SCHWIEBERT.)
     
    i. Extended fingr-good for heavy tackle, possible to rotate the wrist slightly and thus throw a tiny curve.
     
    YES.  THAT MAY BE BECAUSE YOUR INDEX FINGER IS EXTENDED ON THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF THE CORK TO THE THUMB, AND MAY YIELD GREATER POWER FOR THE BACK CAST.
     
    j. Wrist action grip- 
     
    ANOTHER NAME IN THE CASTING LITERATURE FOR THE "FREE WRIST GRIP"
     
    3. a. Joan Wulff-thumb on top except for short rods then finger on top      YES
    b.  Lifty Kreh-thumb on top    YES
    c.  Gary Borger-three point    YES
    d.  roberto Pragliola-three point but crowding the reel seat   YES....CROWDING THE REEL SEET TO THE MAX.
    e.  Jason Borger-three point  YES
    f.  Doug Swisher-thumb on top (micro wrist)  YES.  HE'S KNOWN FOR THE, "MICROSECOND WRIST."
    g.  Steve Rajeff-V-grip  YES
    h.  Jaworowski- thumb opn top   YES
    i.  Schweibert-   THUMB ON TOP FOR MOST CASTS. OCCASIONALLY GOES TO INDEX FINGER ON TOP.
    j.  Knight-   JOHN ALDEN KNIGHT USED AND ADVOCATED THE USE OF THE FREE WRIST GRIP, IN SEVERAL OF HIS BOOKS.  (P. 1206, TROUT, BY ERNIE SCHWIEBERT)  ACCORDING TO SCHWIEBERT, HE DIDN'T RECOMMEND IT, HOWEVER, FOR SALT WATER OR DISTANCE CASTS.
    K.  Marinaro-three point with distal grip   YES !  (I HAD A DIFFICULT TIME FINDING THIS.....MADE ME GO BACK AND READ HIS ENTIRE BOOK, IN THE RING OF THE RISE.  FINALLY FOUND A PICTURE OF HIM USING THIS GRIP ON P. 37.)
     
    l. Green-distal grip ? three point    I COULDN'T FIND THE ANSWER TO THIS ONE.  MY DISTANT MEMORY FROM HIS LITTLE BOOK ON FLY CASTING PUBLISHED IN THE 60'S WAS THAT HE USED A THUMB-ON-TOP GRIP.  (I'D LOVE TO GET A COPY OF THAT FOR MY COLLECTION !!!)
     
    m.  Hugh Falkus-(that reference is in storage) 
     
     HE USED A TWO HANDED GRIP, AS HE WAS A NOTABLE SPEY CASTER.  ON P. 56 OF HIS BOOK, SPEYCASTING, A NEW TECHNIQUE YOU WILL SEE THIS DEPICTED AND DESCRIBED AS, "HANDS WITH THUMBS ON TOP OF THE ROD".  THE LOWER HAND IS DOWN AT THE VERY BUTT END OF THE CORK, AND THE UPPER HAND IS POSITIONED WITH THE THUMB JUST  A COUPLE OF INCHES FROM THE DISTAL END OF THE HANDLE.
     
    n.  Frank Steel-  HE USED THE, "WRIST ACTION GRIP"  (DEPICTED ON P. 29 OF HIS BOOK, FLY FISHING (1946))  THIS IS ESPECIALLY INTERESTING IN THAT THIS IN CONSIDERED A VERY POOR GRIP FOR ACCURACY.....YET FRANK WAS THE FIRST EVER TO HAVE A PERFECT ACCURACY SCORE IN INTERNATIONAL COMPETITION !!!!
     
    o.  Ritz- CHARLES RITZ USED A THUMB-ON-TOP GRIP.  HE EMPHASIZED RELAXING THE THUMB AND TIGHTENING THE FINGERS ON THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF THE ROD HANDLE DURING BACK CAST.....AND THE OPPOSITE FOR THE FORWARD STROKE.  HE CALLED IT THE, "ARM ACTION GRIP" (A FLY FISHER'S LIFE, CHARLES RITZ, PP 16 AND 45-46.)
     
    p.  Mack Brown-thumb on top   YES.  (CASTING ANGLES, P.48.)
     
    q.  Joe Humphreys-thumb on top  YES.  ( SEE P 11 OF, ON THE TROUT STREAM WITH JOE HUMPHREYS)
     
    r.   Floyd Franke-thumb on top  YES
    s.  Bill Gammel-thumb on top  YES
     
    That is the best I can do with the references available (living in a 900 square foot trailer while the house is being built does have its disadvantages)
    Jim



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