Walter....
I didn't really answerer the part of your question, "How do we describe the mechanics of a good back cast to a student?"
I'd begin by giving a standard description of false casting, with the similarities between the forward and the back cast, especially for cadence and the use of the obvious timing for the back cast to be used for that of the back cast. I'd keep it simple, not getting into different line lengths carried, differences in choice of loop speed, or wind problems.
Then I'd point out some of the obvious differences, like the different direction (one obviously being opposite that of the other).
I'd tarry on that point, and describe the fact that in most sports we don't "throw backwards".........as one reason to spend more time and mental as well as practice energy on the back cast.
I'd go on to emphasize, as Bob Andreae so aptly did, that the back cast, "is your most important cast".....since a good back cast is necessary for a good following forward cast.
Only then would I go into details on arm/wrist positions for each within the parameter of a chosen style.
Teaching from this point on, would best be done as the student actually casts, using all the teaching techniques necessary, including a "hands-on" approach, combined with an admonition to, "watch your back cast."
Often, I have the early student make only repetative back casts from the line positioned in front on grass.....turning each time so to avoid the complication of making even a single forward cast.
Once done well most of the time, we go, "airborne" with false casting......and advance from there.
Gordy
From: WALTER/SUE SIMBIRSKI <simbirsw@xxxxxxx>
To: Gordon Hill <hillshead@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Question
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 10:14:26 -0600
Gordy - I see a lot of discussion about the forward cast (push/pull/lead with the elbow/point your pinky/alaman left/dosee doe). Everyone seems to gloss over the back
cast - "it's just like the front cast (only different)".
Clearly it isn't just like the front cast. The characteristics of a good back cast are the same as the characteristics of a good front cast (timing, loop control, slp, etc.) and we've seen the accelerometer graphs that show for great casting the acceleration (or application of power) needs to be identical in both directions but the mechanics are totally different. Is there an equivalent to the push/pull on the back cast? You can't lead with the elbow on your back cast. How do we describe the mechanics of a good back cast to a student?
Walter
From: Gordon Hill <hillshead@xxxxxxx>
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Subject: Re: Writing
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 09:48:29 -0400
Walter....
A compliment I doubt I deserve.
Your comment on candidates quoting authors and fly casting, "gurus" is important to note.
My advice is to AVOID quoting these experts when taking your exam. There are a number of reasons for this, including clashing egos, differences of opinion in casting matters, and the fact that the examiner is really looking for YOUR opinion and concepts......not that of an author. I can remember Floyd Franke's advice on that: "If you quote Joan Wulff to me, you had better be right." I've heard another examiner tell the candidate who had just quoted Lefty Kreh, "If I'd wanted Lefty's opinion, I'd have asked him. I want YOUR answer."
On another occasion, I witnessed a candidate quoting a well known and respected author. The lead examiner bristled and said, "Well ________ doesn't really understand fly casting."
Having said that, I realize that on the MCI oral exam, an examiner might well come up with some questions to explore your knowledge of the different styles or opinions of notable fly casters.......so you need to know these things as part of your general knowlege.
For example, back when I was studying for my MCI exam. Floyd gave me some preparatory, "homework" to do. One of the questions was to compare in detail the style variations between Joan Wulff and Lefty Kreh. I remember that my answer came close to the mark.....but I missed one important feature regarding the differences in the use of the wrist. A difference which can be considered fundamental.
Gordy
From: Walter Simbirski <simbirsw@xxxxxxx>
To: Gordon Hill <hillshead@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Writing
Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 15:57:30 -0600
Gordy - I don't know of anyone who has become a "famous author" writing a book on fly casting. I doubt thatthe average person on the street could name one person who has written a fly casting book or is "famous"in fly fishing circles. Nine out of ten who did answer would probably say Bob Izumi (no offense to Bob).The real danger is having budding certified casters misquoting you during their tests. :)I've only been a member of your mailing list for a short time but I think that any book you wrote would beone hell of a book. Not only do you have a wealth of knowledge but you have the ability to explain it at alllevels from layman to PhD.We have a number of fine books and videos on casting but they tend to have a single person point of view.The student is left to compare and contrast works by the individuals on their own. What I would really liketo see is a compilation of works by various authors and teachers with analysis and commentary from Gordy Hill.My two cents worth.Walter----- Original Message -----From: Gordon HillTo: jerry_puckett2001@xxxxxxxxx ; flysoup@xxxxxxxxxx ; sobbobfish@xxxxxxx ; rtab@xxxxxxx ; CAPTPERMIT@xxxxxxx ; creangler@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; dwright@xxxxxxxxxxxx ; daver@xxxxxxxxxx ; dennisg@xxxxxxxxxxxx ; captdoug@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; dsprague01@xxxxxxxxxxx ; ephemera@xxxxxxx ; brushycreekfc@xxxxxxxxx ; keysjake@xxxxxxx ; barefootj@xxxxxxx ; bradyir@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ; flyfishar@xxxxxxxxxxx ; ken.cole@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ; captkirk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; glbaggett@xxxxxxxxx ; mkreider1@xxxxxxx ; martyt@xxxxxxxxxx ; niallogan@xxxxxxxxxx ; pminnick@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ; bigfly@xxxxxxxxx ; whorwood@xxxxxxxxx ; flycasts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ; sheila@xxxxxxxxxx ; scjacobs@xxxxxxxxxxxx ; tharper@xxxxxxxxxxx ; tomwhite@xxxxxxxxxxxxCc: mildbill@xxxxxxxxxxxx ; caddis@xxxxxxx ; Brydnlnims@xxxxxxxxxxx ; cezannealexander@xxxxxxxxxxx ; crazycharlie@xxxxxxx ; croberts@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; blacksalmon@xxxxxxxxxxx ; DermSox@xxxxxxx ; gladesflybum@xxxxxxxxxxxx ; gavin@xxxxxxxxxxx ; hillshead@xxxxxxx ; iverson@xxxxxxxxx ; jfs523@xxxxxxxxxxx ; kathleen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; thedamselfly@xxxxxxxxxxx ; plami@xxxxxxxxxxx ; ray@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; kerrrc@xxxxxxxxx ; simbirsw@xxxxxxx ; bobbeanblossom@xxxxxxx ; hillcathy@xxxxxxx ; donjack@xxxxxxxxxxx ; douglas.swift@xxxxxxxxxxxx ; erniemaynard@xxxxxxxxxxx ; flyfsfrank@xxxxxxx ; gregrahe@xxxxxxxxxxx ; ianmuirhead@xxxxxxx ; jeff@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; t.maltese@xxxxxxxxx ; skifishvail@xxxxxxxx ; jfv@xxxxxxxxxxxx ; trallag@xxxxxxx ; mollysemenik@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; paul@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; fraudflies@xxxxxxx ; shane@xxxxxxxxx ; snowmonkey29@xxxxxxxSent: Sunday, September 18, 2005 8:12 AMSubject: RE: WritingJerry....
Many folks have suggested that......but I doubt I'll ever do it. My object is only to help......not to become a "famous author".
If someone else wished to use my material to do that, I would not object......perhaps someone who might need or value the exposure.
Gordy
From: jerry puckett <jerry_puckett2001@xxxxxxxxx>
To: Gordon Hill <hillshead@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Writing
Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 16:45:09 -0700 (PDT)
Gordy, I have loved this e-mail forum and over the short time involved realized it as a source on casting not available through any other publication. You synthesize in a way that is unique. Have you ever thought of putting together your own book on casting. You have a wealth of understanding and knowledge that would benefit a much larger casting community. Just a thought for you to ponder. Jerry