Hi, Group....
Lets have as many of you as possible help Rick out on this one. By coming up with simple commonly used fly casting and fly fishing terms and as brief a definition as possible for each.
Some might be, "right bank", "left bank", "Loop", "Trajectory", "Rod plane", "Line plane", "tailing loop", "Underslung loop", "RSP", "SLP," "Modulus", "'Rod loading", ......many others for you to come up with.
Fun......and we'll all learn something.
Gordy
From: "Rick Whorwood" <whorwood@xxxxxxxxx>
To: "'Gordon Hill'" <hillshead@xxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: Question
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 01:47:15 -0400
Hi Gordy
I?m asking a favor of the group, I got a call today from Chris Bird, Fly Fusion Magazine. Chris is in a bit of a spot, the regular writer for his casting tips column, won?t have time to submit an article. Chris asked if I could put something together on casting tips. What I?m thinking is a ?glossary of casting terms?. Ex: would be, fly on the dangle: line, downstream, straight. If the group could send me what they use this would be great.
Thanks
Rick Whorwood
From: Gordon Hill [mailto:hillshead@xxxxxxx]
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 1:16 PM
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Subject: RE: Question
Walter....
Very good observation and good grist for the mill ! First, I'd suggest being careful with your statement that, "the mechanics are entirely different". That could dig you into a bit of a hole on an exam..
As I see it, the back cast and the forward cast have some similarities and some definite differences.
SIMILARITIES:-
1.) Except for wind and specialty casts, good cadence while false casting includes the same timing and pause for each, until additional line is slipped out of the rod. (A nit picking exception would be the rare instance when the caster chooses a different loop speed for forward cast than that of the back cast, in which case the pause must be shorter for the one with the higher loop speed.)
2.) Both follow the 180 degree line centered at the rod tip. (Trajectory, or line plane)
3.) An efficient back cast is usually matched by an efficient forward cast.
4.) Both require a loading move followed by a, "speed-up-and-stop" ("power snap").
5.) Both require a definite STOP at the end of the stroke.
6.) The forward loop and the back cast loop size and shape will be dictated by the same principles.
7.) Each may involve shooting line.
8.) Change of direction may be accomplished on either the forward cast or the back cast.
9.) Depending upon style, the caster may use the concept of "pull" for most of the stroke on either the forward cast or the back cast. (The hand remains beyond the rod in the direction of the cast longer for each with this technique.)*
Now, we have some DIFFERENCES:-
1.) The forward cast is usually in a 180 degree direction opposite of that of the back cast.
2.) You do need a good forward cast to make a good back cast, but it's even more important to have a good back cast in order to follow with a good forward cast.
3.) The fingers opposite the thumb apply pressure to the cork grip during the back cast.
4.) A very different set of arm and shoulder muscles are used in making the back cast. (One could outline an entire study on this, alone.) These muscles used for the forward stroke, are usually stronger than those used for the back stroke.
5.) Casters almost always watch the forward cast....but usually don't watch the back cast. (This leads to more unseen faults and less control on the back cast.)
6.) The forward cast is more often used for the presentation cast, than is the back cast.
7.) CREEP can occur on either the forward or the back cast, but is much more commonly seen as slow forward motion of the rod tip opposite that of the still unrolling loop of the back cast.
8.) TICKING is far more common on the back cast than it is on the forward cast.
9.) CREEP, TICKING, and POOR LOOP FORMATION are more common on the back cast, because of worse timing on this cast than on the forward cast.
10.) Many casters try to correct casting problems by spending time adjusting the forward stroke, when the underlying problem lies with the back cast ! (Read Ed Jaworowski's, TROUBLESHOOTING THE CAST, pp.6-7)
11.) The joints of the casting arm assume different positions during the back cast. This is especially true of the wrist. (Joan Wulff makes a graphic point of this in her book and video/DVD) **
12.) Body motion during the back cast is very different than that used during the forward cast.
13.) An out of control wrist, (wristing) is much more common on the back cast than on the forward cast.
14.) A tailing loop is much more common on the forward cast than on the back cast. (There are at least 2 reasons for this.)
15.) For most casters, accuracy is more difficult when presenting with the back cast.
There are, doubtless, other differences, but these are the ones which come to mind.
Good brain twister, Walter !
Gordy
* Check out Mel Krieger's new article on p. 38 of FLY FISHERMAN, Dec., '05., "The Pull Through Casting Stroke". (Note that he doesn't relate the pull to the lead of the elbow, rather to that of the casting HAND.) His statement on p.39, "In the pull-through casting stroke, the casting hand precedes the rod tip through most of the casting stroke and the turnover and stop takes place only at the end of the casting stroke." On p. 75, he goes further by writing, " A PUSH THROUGH movement in the ca sting stroke has the rod even or ahead of the casting hand through much of the casting stroke - somewhat akin to a punching motion. While it is possible to cat fairly well with this motion, expecially with a stiff, powerful fly rod, the PULL-THROUGH casting stroke is superior." (I would prefer to relate the position of the hand to the proximal portion of the butt section of the rod than the tip, because that of the rod tip will vary so much with the bend in the rod.)
** Joan Wulff's, FLYCASTING TECHNIQUES, PP 26-27. Her DVD, DYNAMICS OF FLY CASTING is, in my opinion, a "must".
***With a low-elbow, off-vertical style, Walter, it IS possible to lead with the elbow on the back cast. Lefty demonstrates this well. I often use this style for a back cast presentation to into a wind.
Gordy
From: WALTER/SUE SIMBIRSKI <simbirsw@xxxxxxx>
To: Gordon Hill <hillshead@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Question
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 10:14:26 -0600
Gordy - I see a lot of discussion about the forward cast (push/pull/lead with the elbow/point your pinky/alaman left/dosee doe). Everyone seems to gloss over the back
cast - "it's just like the front cast (only different)".
Clearly it isn't just like the front cast. The characteristics of a good back cast are t he same as the characteristics of a good front cast (timing, loop control, slp, etc.) and we've seen the accelerometer graphs that show for great casting the acceleration (or application of power) needs to be identical in both directions but the mechanics are totally different. Is there an equivalent to the push/pull on the back cast? You can't lead with the elbow on your back cast. How do we describe the mechanics of a good back cast to a student?
Walter
From: Gordon Hill <hillshead@xxxxxxx>
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Subject: Re: Writing
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 09:48:29 -0400Walter....
A compliment I doubt I deserve.
Your comment on candidates quoting authors and fly casting, "gurus" is important to note.
My advice is to AVOID quoting these experts when taking your exam. There are a number of reasons for this, including clashing egos, differences of opinion in casting matters, and the fact that the examiner is really looking for YOUR opinion and concepts......not that of an author. I can remember Floyd Franke's advice on that: "If you quote Joan Wulff to me, you had better be right." I've heard another examiner tell the candidate who had just quoted Lefty Kreh, "If I'd wanted Lefty's opi nion, I'd have asked him. I want YOUR answer."
On another occasion, I witnessed a candidate quoting a well known and respected author. The lead examiner bristled and said, "Well ________ doesn't really understand fly casting."
Having said that, I realize that on the MCI oral exam, an examiner might well come up with some questions to explore your knowledge of the different styles or opinions of notable fly casters.......so you need to know these things as part of your general knowlege.
For example, back when I was studying for my MCI exam. Floyd gave me some preparatory, "homework" to do. One of the questions was to compare in detail the style variations between Joan Wulff and Lefty Kreh. I remember that my answer came close to the mark.....but I missed one important feature regarding the differences in the use of the wrist. A difference which can be considered fundamental.
Gordy
From: Walter Simbirski <simbirsw@xxxxxxx>
To: Gordon Hill <hillshead@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Writing
Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 15:57:30 -0600Gordy - I don't know of anyone who has become a "famous author" writing a book on fly casting. I doubt that
the average person on the street could name one person who has written a fly casting book or is "famous"
in fly fishing circles. Nine out of ten who did answer would probably say Bob Izumi (no offense to Bob).
The real danger is having budding certified casters misquoting you during their tests. :)
I've only been a member of your mailing list for a short time but I think that any book you wrote would be
one hell of a book. Not only do you have a wealth of knowledge but you have the ability to explain it at all
levels from layman to PhD.
We have a number of fine books and videos on casting but they tend to have a single person point of view.
The student is left to compare and contrast works by the individuals on their own. What I would really like
to see is a compilation of works by various authors and teachers with analysis and commentary from Gordy Hill.
My two cents worth.
Walter
----- Original Message -----
From: Gordon Hill
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Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2005 8:12 AM
Subject: RE: Writing
Jerry....
Many folks have suggested that......but I doubt I'll ever do it. My object is only to help......not to become a "famous author".
If someone else wished to use my material to do that, I would not object......perhaps someone who might need or value the exposure.
Gordy
From: jerry puckett <jerry_puckett2001@xxxxxxxxx>
To: Gordon Hill <hillshead@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Writing
Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 16:45:09 -0700 (PDT)Gordy, I have loved this e-mail forum and over the short time involved realized it as a source on casting not available through any other publication. You synthesize in a way that is unique. Have you ever thought of putting together your own book on casting. You have a wealth of understanding and knowledge that would benefit a much larger casting community. Just a thought for you to ponder. Jerry