----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 11:54 PM
Subject: Re: Goofed.
Probably a good idea to call it a "technique" rather than
a specific cast. Kind of like Tom not wanting to give name
to certain casts - that way it just remains one of those
bag of trick items.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 5:18
PM
Subject: Re: Goofed.
Walter....
Correct !
Gordy
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 11:59
AM
Subject: Re: Goofed.
Gordy - Jason calls it a Maloney
Technique.
Cheers
Walter
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 5:39
AM
Subject: Re: Goofed.
Walter....
No....I can't recall having seen this in print.
With that power snap with the rod way down in horizontal plane, one
does have to be careful of where the STOP is placed in order to prevent a
hook layout to the line hand side. With a little practice, the
caster can do either just fine.
As I think about this, I'm reminded that there are innumerable,
"casts" that we make to solve local problems which will never make it into
print. One example which I would hesitate to teach for fear that I'd
be quoted out of context, is the purposely done well controlled tailing
loop which I'll rarely use to flip a popper under an overhanging
mangrove. (This one, however, IS mentioned in Jason Borger's
book. He called it a, "Maloney Cast", as I recall.) The true
expert fly angler with many years of experience will have many casting
maneuvers which have no names.
For this reason, Tom White prefers to "name" casts only as
necessary. He'd rather have the student understand the casting
problem and its solution than to have him/her go by names. I've
heard him explore the depth of the candidate's knowledge at every turn
with comments like, "Don't give me a name, tell me and show me what you
do." That helps define the candidate who has a real understanding of
what's going on from the one who has memorized a litany of of canned terms
and expressions.
Taken from baseball, "It's one thing to talk a good game. It's
another to PLAY a good game ! "
Gordy
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005
11:27 AM
Subject: Re: Goofed.
Hey Gordy!
I had an opportunity to try this out
last night on the river. I was fishing with a 3 weight rod and a rather
brisk wind came up so I thought I would give it a try. The term "outward
swing" does appear to be misleading. I actually took the description to
be one of two possibilities - the first was the reverse Belgian cast
idea as you describe. This would involve a relatively gently swing to
the outside.
The second was the idea of making a very sudden
change in the rod direction from forward to the outside as a kind of
sideways power snap (hard enough with a light rod but it would be very
difficult with a heavier rod). A number of things happen when you do
this - one is that you can get a very pronounced stop in the forward
direction, the second was that the loop moves from a vertical to a
horizontal plane as you describe, the third is that you can actually
form a very tight loop because the rod tip is moved in a horizontal
plane rather than vertical and you don't have to contend with the affect
of gravity or the bounce of the rod as it passes its straight position
and returns on the loop formation so you don't need to move the rod tip
very far to get it out of the way of the line.
Personally, I'll
stick with a basic casting stroke combined with the double haul, but I
recall reading a fly casting instruction manual back in the 60's that
advocated a horizontal casting plane rather than vertical. This was for
an overhead casting stroke (not sidearm) and the rod tip was moved in a
path resembling a race track. I haven't been able to find any references
to this casting style since then. I would be curious to know if you've
seen this anywhere.
Cheers
Walter
----- Original
Message -----
From: Gordon Hill <hillshead@xxxxxxx>
Date:
Thursday, October 27, 2005 5:34 am
Subject: Re: Goofed.
>
Walter.....
>
> I saw a similar description, many years
ago.
>
> The wording all makes sense, until you get to the,
"outward
> swing". I interpret this, however, to mean that
the caster is
> using a horizontal rod plane for his delivery
cast.....not swing
> his arm out to the side, which would be
self-defeating.
>
> A change of rod planes between the back
stroke and the forward
> stroke is a key element of the
elliptical or, so-called, "Belgian
> cast".
> As you know,
this can take several forms. Most casters use the
> term to
mean a cast in which the back cast is made with the rod in
> a
horizontal plane, and the delivery stroke made with a more
>
vertical rod plane.
>
> Of course, the reason the cast
became known as the, "Belgian
> cast", was that it was used by a
Belgian named Albert Godart to
> win a distance fly casting event
in international competition in
> the 1930's.
>
> I
have been told that he did that, however, using what I have
>
called a, "Reverse Belgian Cast" in that his cast was actually
> made using an off vertical rod plane for his back cast, and a
> horizontal rod plane for his forward delivery. His style
may have
> been explained by his physical habitus. He was
described as a
> short, stocky, very powerfully muscled
man. I have found this
> cast to be very effective for
certain high wind
> situations......particularly when wading sand
bars in the salt.
>
> This may explain the dilemma provided
by the fact that the cast
> was named for him at a European
competition where there surely had
> to have been other
continental casters familiar with the
> "continuous tension" cast
of Hans Gebesroither in Austria who is
> credited with fathering
this kind of elliptical cast which he
> taught to Charles Ritz
and many others during his years of being
> head keeper on the
Traun.
>
> Fascinating stuff !!!!!
>
>
>
Gordy
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
Walter Simbirski<')" >simbirsw@xxxxxxx>
> To:
Gordon Hill<')" >hillshead@xxxxxxx>
> Sent:
Wednesday, October 26, 2005 9:56 AM
> Subject: Re:
Goofed.
>
>
> No problem - here it is
>
> Gordy -
>
> Just picked up a fly
casting booklet published in 1941. It
> describes something
called the wind cast for casting into the
> wind. The cast is
similar to an overhead cast with a high back
> cast but "the
forward cast is made in a powerful manner down
> toward the front
with an outward swing."
>
> "Properly executed as to
height of back cast, pause, and degree
> of outward movement on
the forward cast, coupled with the right
> amount of vim and
power on the forward stroke, this cast will make
> the line cut
into the wind much better than a straight overhead
> cast - hence
its name.
>
> The angler will not care to use this
method save as a matter of
> necessity, for it is hard on both
wrist and rod."
>
> Are you familiar with this cast?
Does it really work? Can it be
> coupled with a haul?
>
> Also has some interesting info on equipment such as fly
lines.
> Oiled silk was considered the cheapest fly line but not
> recommended at the time. Enameled lines were considered very
good
> and nylon was the best available at the time.
>
> Cheers
>
>
Walter
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Gordon Hill<')"
>hillshead@xxxxxxx>
> To: Walter
Simbirski<')" >simbirsw@xxxxxxx>
>
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 5:32 AM
>
Subject: Goofed.
>
>
>
Walter...
>
> I accidentally erased your
message this morning. Can you send
> it, again?
>
>
>
Gordy
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