Bob....
Good questions !
Most of us use the abbreviation, "RSP" to mean the ROD STRAIGHT POSITION.
In my communications, I simply use the word, STOP to mean the stop of the hand and the butt section of the rod. Technically, it is the stop of the casting hand and with most casts, that of the butt section, but with a deeply loaded rod as with distance casting, the butt section is loaded (bent) and, therefore, wouldn't have it's distal end stop exactly at the same time.
You are correct in that studies have shown that the rod tip is moving fastest between the STOP (of the hand) and the RSP (rod straight position) at which point the loop begins to form as the moving fly line starts to overtake the tip.
Some of these terms are the result of recent computer related studies using video and angular measurement devices not available when the "current" texts were written.
Now let's look at the CASTING PLANE. This is different from the ROD PLANE which is the orientation of the fly rod from vertical to horizontal on either side of the caster's body.
The CASTING PLANE has been defined as, "the pathway that the hand follows back and forth during the cast." (Jason Borger, THE NATURE OF FLY CASTING, p. 37). Some confusion may occur, here, in that many of us also use the term, CASTING STROKE, to refer to the the path taken by the hand during the cast. and the STROKE LENGTH as that very distance that the hand moves during the cast. Even this must be tempered with the knowledge that the hand movement is NOT that of a straight line, rather an elliptical motion for most casts.
Some have confused the term, CASTING PLANE with that of, LINE PLANE. Most of us use the term, LINE PLANE, to mean the trajectory of the path of the line as related to the horizontal plane of the ground or water. Having said that, I can see confusion arising as we try to discuss line plane while casting in the horizontal or off vertical rod planes. In those cases one would only be correct in defining line plane as the plane of the fly line related to an imaginary plane existing at 90 degrees from that of the butt section of the fly rod.....a plane which literally must change with every change in rod plane. Thus, it would be even more correct, to define line plane in terms of rod plane. A real brain teaser !
None of these terms are, "written in stone". Our FFF glossary commitee is working hard on coming up with a practical glossary of terms with which we can (hopefully) all agree. You would be amazed at all the discussion which takes place to help finalize even one of these. The whole idea is to come up with a common language.
Discussions have taken place as to whether to embrace scientifically correct definitions which may be wordy, cumbersome and hard for most to understand, or to come up with definitions which are workable and teachable to our early caster students. The real difficulty comes in acheiving a set of good practical definitions which are reasonably (though not strictly) correct from a physics standpoint and yet easy to teach.
I feel that the REAL student of casting mechanics is one who studies the available literature with sufficient understanding of the basic principles to be able to, "translate" the language of one author into that of another and to integrate this information with that being acquired by ongoing studies and discussions. The ability to do that does NOT detract from the lessons given us by earlier authors, but actually gives us a better understanding of the whole picture.
Gordy
From: "Bob Rumpf - The Flye & The Pen" <caddis@xxxxxxx>
To: "Gordon Hill" <hillshead@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Away for Christmas
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 12:38:04 -0500
Hi Gordy & group,I have a question, it may seem nit-picky, but I'd like to be relatively sure of my responses.I print out everything that comes through the group for the past 2 plus years. As I review my material I repeatedly see RSP defined as either Rod Stop Position - or - Rod Straight Position, which one is accurate? As I see it, they cannot be inter-changeable. If for example: You alter your casting plane when casting to targets, then your Rod Stop Position would obviously not be straight.If you are asked: When does maximum line speed occur: Would it not be between the stopping of the butt section and the loop formation? Or in plainer words, right after the stop, as opposed to saying right after the Rod Straight Position.I asked the above question, because in our material, it gives the Max Line Speed definition as occurring between the Stop and the RSP. To echo my above statement, the rod, if you alter your casting plane, will not be straight.Thanks and a very Merry Christmas to all,Bob Rumpf----- Original Message -----From: Gordon HillTo: flysoup@xxxxxxxxxx ; sobbobfish@xxxxxxx ; rtab@xxxxxxx ; CAPTPERMIT@xxxxxxx ; creangler@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; dwright@xxxxxxxxxxxx ; daver@xxxxxxxxxx ; dennisg@xxxxxxxxxxxx ; captdoug@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; dsprague01@xxxxxxxxxxx ; ephemera@xxxxxxx ; brushycreekfc@xxxxxxxxx ; keysjake@xxxxxxx ; barefootj@xxxxxxx ; bradyir@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ; flyfishar@xxxxxxxxxxx ; ken.cole@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ; captkirk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; glbaggett@xxxxxxxxx ; mkreider1@xxxxxxx ; martyt@xxxxxxxxxx ; niallogan@xxxxxxxxxx ; pminnick@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ; bigfly@xxxxxxxxx ; whorwood@xxxxxxxxx ; flycasts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ; sheila@xxxxxxxxxx ; scjacobs@xxxxxxxxxxxx ; tharper@xxxxxxxxxxx ; tomwhite@xxxxxxxxxxxxCc: mildbill@xxxxxxxxxxxx ; caddis@xxxxxxx ; Brydnlnims@xxxxxxxxxxx ; cezannealexander@xxxxxxxxxxx ; crazycharlie@xxxxxxx ; croberts@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; blacksalmon@xxxxxxxxxxx ; DermSox@xxxxxxx ; gladesflybum@xxxxxxxxx ; gavin@xxxxxxxxxxx ; hillshead@xxxxxxx ; iverson@xxxxxxxxx ; jfs523@xxxxxxxxxxx ; jerry_puckett2001@xxxxxxxxx ; kathleen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; thedamselfly@xxxxxxxxxxx ; plami@xxxxxxxxxxx ; ray@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; kerrrc@xxxxxxxxx ; simbirsw@xxxxxxx ; bobbeanblossomFFF@xxxxxxxxxxx ; hillcathy@xxxxxxx ; dnewpher@xxxxxxxxxxxx ; donjack@xxxxxxxxxxx ; douglas.swift@xxxxxxxxxxxx ; erniemaynard@xxxxxxxxxxx ; flyfsfrank@xxxxxxx ; hlpc@xxxxxxx ; jeff@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; harveyjl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ; t.maltese@xxxxxxxxx ; skifishvail@xxxxxxxx ; jfv@xxxxxxxxxxxx ; trallag@xxxxxxx ; captflyrod@xxxxxxx ; mollysemenik@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; paul@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; fraudflies@xxxxxxx ; shane@xxxxxxxxx ; snowmonkey29@xxxxxxxSent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 11:25 AMSubject: Away for ChristmasGroup....
I'll be away from my computer for a few days. Back a couple of days after Christmas.
MERRY CHRISTMAS, GREAT HOLIDAYS, AND A SUPER NEW YEAR FOR ALL OF YOU !!!!
Gordy