Jim....
Good teaching comments....especially in connection with the message string below yours.
This is one of the reasons we have a CBOG committee to try to come up with an FFF Glossary of terms and definitions. It has been a daunting task for us during the past couple of years.......yet fun and instructive.
Gordy
From: "JFV" <jfv@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "'Gordon Hill'" <hillshead@xxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: STOP?
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 13:52:43 -0500
Gordy & Group,
This subject couldn?t be more appropriate at this very moment.
I was asked to coordinate the testing at the Somerset show which included researching and putting together a CI workshop.
With lots of help from BOG?s around the country I put together a good program that introduced CI candidates to what it means to be a Certified FFF instructor.
One of the core concepts of my workshop was to impress on the candidates that the Federation like any large company has a ?Culture? which includes definitions and terminology. This enables the members of that organization to discuss issues using these terms and know that they are understood by all in the group. These definitions and standards allow us to raise the bar in the level of our teaching because they are the foundation of any and all future refinement. And here is the International proof.
At the end of our testing I had made arrangements to give 2 CI candidates a courtesy performance review. Due to variety of circumstances it so happened that Liam Duffy (MCI from Ireland ) whom I had never met, and I were going to do this session. As we got into the ?explain and demonstrate? portion we were trying to impress simplicity and required elements. I did my explanation and demonstration of loops and Liam immediately followed with his. Just a few brief statements from each of us and a few false casts and we were done. Although we were not identical in every respect, the fundamental concepts and terminology absolutely were! And at that very moment I stopped things and explained to our students while Liam and I realized the importance of the moment. ?On an international level there is consistency in our Federation teaching!? This was impressive!
I?ll go one step further Steve Rajef was doing a demonstration an hour or so later and wasn?t it beautiful to hear the exact same terminology. The 2 candidates happened to be right up front. I later explained this whole scenario to Steve who also thought it was great.
For students who will continue learning and for instructors who will ask and answer questions in the future, Our definitions are the foundation of our learning and growth.
I am not a fan of scientific terms, although understanding wrist adduction and abduction for example can be helpful when getting more precise.
I do however feel compelled to teach my students about SLP, Stroke Length, Rod Arc, Pause, Power and Slack, after all they are called ?Essentials? for a good reason.
I use terminology as simple as possible however there are times when the students in front of you require more complete answers.
Jim Valle
MCI
From: Gordon Hill [mailto:hillshead@xxxxxxx]
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 3:05 PM
To: Hlhpc@xxxxxxx; flysoup@xxxxxxxxxx; sobbobfish@xxxxxxx; rtab@xxxxxxx; CAPTPERMIT@xxxxxxx; creangler@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx; dwright@xxxxxxxxxxxx; daver@xxxxxxxxxx; dennisg@xxxxxxxxxxxx; captdoug@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; dsprague01@xxxxxxxxxxx; ephemera@xxxxxxx; brushycreekfc@xxxxxxxxx; barefootj@xxxxxxx; bradyir@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; flyfishar@xxxxxxxxxxx; ken.cole@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; captkirk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; glbaggett@xxxxxxxxx; mkreider1@xxxxxxx; martyt@xxxxxxxxxx; niallogan@xxxxxxxxxx; pminnick@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; bigfly@xxxxxxxxx; whorwood@xxxxxxxxx; flycasts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; sheila@xxxxxxxxxx; scjacobs@xxxxxxxxxxxx; cooper@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; tharper@xxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: mildbill@xxxxxxxxxxxx; caddis@xxxxxxx; Brydnlnims@xxxxxxxxxxx; cezannealexander@xxxxxxxxxxx; crazycharlie@xxxxxxx; croberts@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; blacksalmon@xxxxxxxxxxx; DermSox@xxxxxxx; gladesflybum@xxxxxxxxx; gavin@xxxxxxxxxxx; hillshead@xxxxxxx; iverson@xxxxxxxxx; jfs523@xxxxxxxxxxx; jerry_puckett2001@xxxxxxxxx; kathleen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; thedamselfly@xxxxxxxxxxx; plami@xxxxxxxxxxx; ray@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; kerrrc@xxxxxxxxx; simbirsw@xxxxxxx; bobbeanblossomFFF@xxxxxxxxxxx; hillcathy@xxxxxxx; dnewpher@xxxxxxxxxxxx; donjack@xxxxxxxxxxx; douglas.swift@xxxxxxxxxxxx; erniemaynard@xxxxxxxxxxx; flyfsfrank@xxxxxxx; gregrahe@xxxxxxxxxxx; jeff@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; jhara.carter@xxxxxxxxxxx; harveyjl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; t.maltese@xxxxxxxxx; skifishvail@xxxxxxxx; jfv@xxxxxxxxxxxx; trallag@xxxxxxx; captflyrod@xxxxxxx; mollysemenik@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; paul@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; fraudflies@xxxxxxx; shane@xxxxxxxxx; snowmonkey29@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: STOP?
Harvey.....
You are right when it comes to teaching new and early students......even students at an intermediate level. One reason that Lefty Kreh has been so successful in teaching is that he uses plain simple language to get his points across.
The concept of SLP of that rod tip is of great importance to these casters......and erudite definitions won't help there, at all. Reaching into our bags of tricks to have demos which get that point across is something we should be able to do.
One reason to have usable definitions is so that we can discuss fly casting with one another while remaining on the same page......so we're all talking about the same thing.
Definitions can run the gamut from those which are simple and easy to understand, but not strictly correct, to very correct ones from a physics/mechanics standpoint. Those scientifically correct ones may well not be truly usable if most of can't understand the details, especially those which require some advanced mathematics for completion. These only serve to confuse students. (and perhaps us as well.)
The most difficult thing is to come up with a middle of the road approach which I see as definitions which are reasonably correct yet plain and simple enough that most folks can readily understand them. This is a bigger task than you might think. The engineers, physicists and mathematicians will be able to criticise on the fine details, but that's OK..........we understand that.
In coaching Master Candidates, I have to go beyond the simpler forms of definitions, because they are at a level which allows them to question the details. They should do that as they go to a much higher plane of understanding of fly casting mechanics. That helps with the development of new and very usable casting techniques for fishing as well for teaching. Their depth of understanding will be challenged as they take their MCI exams.
This very depth of knowledge will be even more valuable to them as they go on to test and certify others.....because it gives them understanding of the various ways candidates for both CCI and MCI status will explain and demonstrate the various tasks at hand rather than relegating the accepted answers to those as written in texts and as, "standard" in various discussions.
This takes nothing away from the marvelous casters and fly fishermen who do so well as they fish, but have no interest in teaching. They don't need the, "how" and the, "why" of it all......they just DO IT.
Gordy
From: Hlhpc@xxxxxxx
To: hillshead@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: STOP?
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 12:21:55 ESThi gordy- your terminology of the casting arc being" the angular change in the position of the butt section of the rod from the beginning to the end of the stroke" is certainly correct. however, from a demonstrative perspective of teaching a new student, would'nt it be more of a visual aid to a new student to focus on the rod tip movement in demonstrating SLP vs a 180 degree arc to show what we mean by " casting arc" rather than looking at the butt section of the rod and " trying " to visualize this movement. the same rationale would apply if you were drawing a picture for the student.the movement of the tip is much more noticeable than the movement of the butt section.
on another subject, i've read with great interest comments by various members of this site advocating the replacement of the definitions of many casting terms with subject specific medical/scientific terminology. i remember gary eaton saying that if you take a new flycaster, they do not know the terminology and this would be an opportunity to teach them a new language from the start(not a direct quote,gary.). he is absolutely correct,but let's look at this from an industry perspective. could this tend to put the FFF and it's ideology out on the fringe of the flycasting world? by this i mean that there are many more flyfishing guides out on the planet who are not MCI/CCI instructors. many of these people are very competent casters and fishermen, although not FFF certified. if we start to define terminology outside of the main stream of what the majority understand casting terminology to be, do we place ourselves at some risk to the rest of the flyfishing community? when i taught last summer, my experience with beginning casters was that they wanted to learn as quickly as possible how to cast 30 feet or so, but they did not readily grasp what i consider just to be mainstream terminology ie. SLP,rod arc,stroke length( please note: they did learn the concepts if not the language).
your thoughts and those of other members of this site would be appreciated.
harvey