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Walter & Group...
>From Doug Swift:
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>From Doug Swift:
Hi Gordy
I have attached a link to a video that might help Bob visualize the loop formation that Bruce described. If you feel it would be useful, please share with the group.
Doug Swift
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Phil Gay comments on the Lovolle/Borger article:
Gordy,
That made my head hurt!
I was a bit surprised about how the spring contribution of the rod is less than most think. I shouldn't have been because I have demoed casting with a broom stick with pretty good results. Talk about tight loops!
Phil
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[GH] Phil,
The topic of "spring vs. swing" is a controversial one. Makes one wonder if the results would be the same when many casts with many different rods and lines and many casters would yield modified results.
In the past, I've cited the experiment performed years ago by a chap named Robert Crompton. He fastened the handle of a fly rod to the ground, then drew back on 30' of fly line until he had a deep bend in the rod. Upon releasing the line, the cast didn't even go the distance. He reasoned that the "spring" of the bent rod didn't provide sufficient energy without the addition of the movement of the caster's arm. *
I've done the same thing and have seen variable results depending up on the rod and the line with the rod handle in a vise.
As you did, I made up a "rod" of a broom handle with guides and tip top and put that one in a vise. Doing the pull back on the line accomplished nothing when released, because that "rod" wouldn't bend and load. THEN: Taking that same broom handle rod, for short casts, I can make some pretty good loops and "casts" good enough that I could actually fish with it.
Of course, that is an oversimplified experiment ... an exaggeration to try to make a point. A whole lot changes when we cast with a real fly rod with the added counterweight of a reel.
Even more of a head scratcher when I make a credible presentation beneath overhanging branches by using a bow-and-arrow cast with almost pure rod "spring". Of course, I can get more than twice the distance by making an extended b & A cast by adding line outside the rod tip and a flip of the rod hand for a bit of "swing".
* Jason Borger's NATURE OF FLY CASTING, by Jason Borger, 2001, p. 11.
Gordy
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[GH] Tim Kempton sent this message on the Lovoll/Borger paper, to Jason Borger. * is added for claritry:
"Good morning Jason
I am emailing from Australia
I am part of Gordy's online forum group, and read your paper with interest. I am on the MCI journey, and have become a casting trajic.
Have you used slow, medium and fast rods?
I would guess that the MAV and MCL would be slower (more –ve) for softer rods (were casts 1 and 3 on softer rods?). *
It would be interesting to correlate all this with rod tip and line speed, and chord length.
My interest comes from advising people what rod suits them. Brand, peer group pressure, and bad advice based on poor casting technique has too much to do with it.
Simply picking up a series of rods and see what feels OK may be good advice for an intermediate caster, but up to that stage I cant see how the caster would know what really suits them.
They simply don’t know what they don’t know.
Maybe there is a bit more in the science that will help identify key factors?
Kind regards
Tim"
* MCL = Minimum chord length (tip to handle)
MAV = maximum angular velocity
Tim, then, sent this to us:
The question I asked about rod selection may be a good one for the group.
We had Jerry Siem give a presentation recently on Sage rods, and his answer was try them all.
I am not convinced about that, because as our casting gets better, our style changes…and maybe the type of rod?
In Jason's paper, Its not obvious why cast 4 achieved the fastest line speed at RSP (26)…did the rod bend less, and yet it had the same MCL as cast 2, the slowest (22)?
regards
Tim
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[GH] I'm really not certain if the use of a wide range of rods/lines/casters would have made a significant difference.
Your thoughts???
Gordy
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