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Walter & Group...
[GH] From Paul Arden:
Hi Gordy,
You ask:
"Well, when you purposely demonstrate creep to a student, would you still define it by lack of intent ?"
In this case you would be using forward Drift to simulate Creep. By [our] definition you can never Creep on purpose.
Cheers, Paul
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[GH] Another answer with an analogy from Mark Surtees :
"It also leads to the question: If you make an otherwise perfect cast with a this compensation for a bit of creep and meet your casting/fishing objective, is the creep move still a FAULT???"
Hi Gordy
Yes it is, it isn’t the outcome that determines its status as a fault its simply the absence of control over the rod.
If you unintentionally swerved your car into the path of an oncoming truck there are two possible outcomes, a collision or avoid a collision, the control fault that caused the swerve remains whatever the result.
“Unintentionality” is at the root of the philosophy propounded by “Unintentionalists” , it is similar to “Inadvertentism” and its “Avoidants” teach the principles of “Anti-Accidentalnessmanship”.
… just another weird cult really…. J
Missed this…
"Well, when you purposely demonstrate creep to a student, would you still define it by lack of intent ?"
Yes, as Chuck points out the only thing that differentiates between two motions “forward drift” and “creep”, which have an identical repositioning effect on the rod, is by purpose or intent.
So, you would be simulating “creep” by using “forward drift”, and you can explain it simply by saying that “Creep occurs when the rod drifts forwards, like this, but by accident” a short course in anti accidentalnessmanship will correct it in short order.
Mark
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[GH] Ahhha.....
You have just provided your "definition" of FAULT.
So we can now call casters who creep, UNINTENTIONALISTS !.
If they persist in doing it repeatedly, they would then be UNINTENTIONALISTIC CASTERS.
I, Hereby dub you our official Group WORDSMITH.
Now, to get back to sanity:
While not a formal definition, the term DRIFT is seen by many the way Joan Wulff described it years ago. She used it to mean backward followthrough following (not prior to) the stroke. She taught that when this was used following the forward stroke, that it was called FOLLOWTHROUGH. Joan stated that she called those movements "followthrough" until she started to participate in distance casting competitions at which point she learned that the distance casters were calling this, "drift".
" DRIFT 1. Follow-through on the backcast stroke. 2. A repositioning of the rod hand ( and rod) between backcast and forward cast, in either the same plane or to a different plane. *
The definition of DRIFT by the Sexyloops committee:
Drift: To position the rod between casting strokes.
Moving the rod to adjust Casting Arc, Stroke Length or Casting Plane. Drift applies little or no force on the line. Gordy
* Joan Wulff's FLY CASTING TECHNIQUES, 1987, pp. 40-42, 37, 40-42, 48, 49, 235.
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[GH] From Ed Jacoby:
Hey Gordy,
I notice creep in my practice casting especially at longer casts. I correct this by drifting back slightly after the stop on the back cast. It reminds me of a ski lesson years ago. Without my skies on, the instructor had me just stand looking down hill, now without moving your feet, turn to the right and hold it. Ok, now relax. My upper body naturally went back to facing down hill. By reversing the process while skiing, keeping the upper body facing down hill, my legs seemed to turn back by themselves when I relaxed them at the apex of the turn. Skiers call it un-weighting the skies.
For me it seems, when I relax after the back cast, my shoulder wants to square up with the rest of my body. As I mentioned before, I correct this by drift or relaxing just the hand and not my whole body.
Just another step in the never ending process of becoming a better caster.
I intentionally drag when casting with a strong back wind. This helps me feel the line better.
Ed.
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[GH] Ed,
One frequently touted "cure" for or "prevention" of CREEP is the use of DRIFT. (Back drift for a forward creep, etc.)
This usually works.
HOWEVER-
While rare, itt is possible to use drift and then still have CREEP following it.
Gordy
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[GH] Bob Rumpf weighs in :
Hi Gordy & group,
By my way of thinking creep has been accurately described by Mark with the following two sentences below taken from his message. There is nothing I could add to better define creep. Having to deal with creep frequently, I like Mark, would stress that it is 99% of the time, done unintentionally. However it does more than not serve any useful purpose, it creates a serious problem with the ensuing stroke. What I personally have always found almost amazing about creep, is the seemingly inherent ability of even first time fly casters to immediately sense the lack of necessary stroke length which results from creep. And they will almost without fail exert a quick spike of power in an effort to compensate.
>From Mark's message:
The “slow rotational motion” that reduces available casting arc that we call “Creep” is a control fault and a key feature is that the perp doesn’t know it’s happening. It serves no useful purpose and is most commonly totally unintentional.
It is its uncontrolled nature and its unintentionality that differentiates “Creep”, the fault which reduces casting arc (or stroke length), and “Lift” which has the same effect but is both controlled and intended.
Regards,
Bob Rumpf
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[GH] Bob,
Your point about the caster's reaction to his CREEP is a good one. CREEP diminishes the available casting arc and may diminish casting stroke. As he senses that something isn't "right" he does usually exert a burst of force which yields rapid acceleration. This acceleration cannot be maintained leading to the dip in the rod tip path to be followed by a rise. Of course, this is a concave rod tip path which often leads to a tailing loop.
So we can look at the root cause of the tail as the action by the caster. In this case, the combination of two actions: 1. CREEP and 2. Inappropriate application of force.
(Caveat: Some MCI candidates, when asked the cause of tailing loops will opine that the concave tip path is the cause. Many examiners won't accept that answer, since they see the true CAUSE as action by the caster.)
Gordy
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