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Walter & Group....
[GH] From John Field :
Hi Gordy,
In regard to the high trajectory back, and forward cast question you offered at the bottom, “Where is the concave rod tip path ?”: I would say there is a concave rod-tip path caused by inadequate rod arc, or stroke length for the cast being made. Treatment: Conformity to 180° between casts should cure it, or in a fishing scenario, probably the choice of a different cast or position.
Good fishing, John Field
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John,
That can well be the case. However, I can make a high trajectory back cast with a small loop and matched rod bend to casting arc (reasonably straight rod tip path) and then do the same thing on a high trajectory or even a trajectory parallel with the ground forward cast. If I maintain the same rod plane *, I'll get a tail even if I don't use a burst of force. **
This can occur so long as I have less than 180 degrees between the trajectories of the back cast and the forward cast.
I can prevent the tail by making my high back cast and then drifting back and giving time for that back cast to sink until the extended line is at a angle of 180 degrees with that of the forward cast trajectory.
I can also prevent the tail by changing rod planes between the two casts.
Gordy
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[GH] Question from Ed Jacoby :
Gordy,
Is the conclusion here that creep and drag are the same mechanically except one is intended and one isn't? Ed.
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[GH] Ed,
At this level, each of us can draw his/her own conclusion, since we are not actually tackling the task of developing formal definitions.
My thoughts on the similarities and the differences between CREEP and DRAG which have been discussed :
1. BOTH usually occur in the direction opposite that of an unrolling or newly unrolled loop.
2. BOTH are minimally powered, slow, minimally accelerated movements.
3. BOTH are noted to be movement with mixed rotation and translation.
4. CREEP is usually characterized by more rotation than translation.
5. DRAG is usually characterized by more translation than rotation.
6. CREEP is considered a fault by almost all experts.
7. DRAG is usually considered beneficial or neutral to the efficiency of the cast.
8. DRAG is usually used by competition distance casters. I note that an increasing number of noncompetitive casters are using it for their distance casts.
9. DRAG, while beneficial to some casters, is not used by many elite casters even when they cast competitively as they try for maximum distance.
10. DRAG, since it benefits some casters and not others and is not an essential for efficient casting may be considered an element of STYLE.
11. CREEP usually decreases available casting arc. It can be seen as decreasing available stroke length as well to those who embrace a definition of casting stroke which excludes it.
12. DRAG usually does not decrease available casting arc except to the extent it contains an element of rotation.
13. DRAG may be considered as decreasing available stroke length for those who embrace a definition of casting stroke which excludes it. At least one list of definitions includes it as part of the casting stroke ***
14. CREEP is unintended. (The caster is usually unaware it happened.)
15. DRAG is purposefully done.
16. CREEP can be seen on either forward or back cast. I have used the term, "reverse creep" when it appears on the back cast.
17. DRAG can be used on the back cast as well as the forward cast. I sometimes use it, for example, when making a distance back cast presentation.
18. So far, the FFF has not come up with "official" definitions for CREEP and DRAG.
19. CREEP & DRAG are considered to be substantially the same thing by some thinkers.
20. CREEP is often a prelude to the formation of a tailing loop.
21. DRAG has been oft noted to be a prelude to a tight loop.
22. DRAG and CREEP are movements which result in minimal if any rod load.
23. CREEP is sometimes so subtle as to escape notice by an instructor.
24. DRAG is usually obvious to an informed observer or instructor.
25. CREEP is not taught by instructors (except to CCI & MCI candidates
who need to become proficient in making faulty casts as well as efficient ones).
26. DRAG is often taught as an alternative method (style). Efficient casters sometimes use it as largely translational movement of the rod in the direction of and at the start of the cast prior to the addition of increasing amounts of rotation.
27. DRAG can sometimes diminished unwanted slack.
28. CREEP does not diminish slack.
29. DRAG is usually made with the intent of moving the rod with translation with as much acceleration as the caster can muster. (though it still isn't much except, perhaps, for "super casters" ).
30. CREEP is usually much slower than DRAG with almost no acceleration, in addition to being unintentional.
* Rod plane when defined as: Orientation of the rod from vertical to horizontal on either side of the caster.
** CASTING ANGLES, by Mac Brown, 1997, pp. 102, Fig 4.21 G, & p.103, Fig 4.23 M
*** See attached.
Gordy
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