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Walter & Group...
[GH] ERROR: I made the error of crediting our first message, yesterday, to Mark Surtees. It had been sent by Mark Roberts.
Gordy
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[GH] From Denis Dunderdale has an interesting tale about one of his exams being videoed :
I've really enjoyed this discussion and particularly the fact that it has brought in some, such as myself, that don't frequently jump in. There are lots of reasonable points being made on both sides of the issue. One that I would like to make has to do with what should be expected of a master instructor, or a CCI, for that matter. I agree with those who make the point that once you are aware of being on camera there is a change in the behavior for all involved. That however may very well be what an instructor might encounter in the real world of teaching, or demonstrating. It doesn't happen a lot, but it's happened to me on more than one occasion. If this were a society of casual casters, and ad-hoc instructors then I'd suggest that being taped would be out of the realm of what we should expect and what should be expected of us. As CCIs and MCIs, THCIs and BOGs, we are the at the apex of the casting instructional world, and should be able to perform well under pressure. If we were giving a demo and a nationally syndicate news crew showed up, we would, no doubt, be under pressure but still be expected to perform like the professionals that we are.
When I was training for my MBA, we were frequently videoed in many of the presentations that we made, then, through playback, critiqued in front of and by our peers. There was also a final presentation that was telecast live over the university's TV station. The point was to be prepared for those times and to know in advance what you look like on video and to overcome the initial shock that anyone would have as a first timer. I see MCIs and CCIs as the MBAs of the casting instruction world.
With all of that said, I would support video being part of the program, but not on a case by case basis. If being videoed is something that a candidate should be prepared for, then make it so across the board. I don't think that it's fair for surprise a candidate out of the blue. If the candidate wants to Vidio the test, that should be up to them, and the MBA, I mean the examiner should be able to deal with it without prejudice. This, of course, is only my opinion.
This reminds me on my first attempt at the CCI exam. Mel Krieger was the examiner. A Canadian TV station happened to be at the event where the test was given. Half way through, I look over and saw a three-person file crew filming my test. It rocked my boat. What really rocked me was when they got to within inches of my face for close ups of my facial _expression_ while I was attempting one of the tasks, then zoomed into Mel's clipboard to film the comments he was writing about my performance. I'd love to say that this was the reason for my unsuccessful result, but the truth of the matter is at I just wasn't ready yet. Six months later, however, was a different story with a different result. I have since become close friends With the director of the film crew, although it took a little while (lol).
Thanks for letting me share.
Denis Dunderdale
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[GH] Dennis,
I hadn't considered the video documentation of fascial expressions and actual notes taken by an examiner..... or the "sidebar" discussions which sometimes go on by examiners during the course of an exam.
Gordy
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[GH] From Ward Nicholas :
Hi Gordy
Just some thoughts on videoing and assessment. The process can work well if the candidate and examiners/instructors use a video as much as possible so it becomes normal. In an assessment it is amazing when even the presence of the teacher/coach can effect the outcome let alone a machine watching your every move. Sometimes the quality of the performance is lost due to the poor videoing technique, and of course sometimes the performance is enhanced if the person behind the lens is very good and adds some good editing, and as already been mentioned what happens to the video after the performance? The main points that I have noted is it is a very good tool to instruct and learn from but can be a dangerous tool if not thought through well. I have used videos in other aspects of coaching and teaching but not fly casting as yet.
Ward
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[GH] From Jim Bass :
Gordy because of the Privacy laws I think that unless FFF Board of Governors sets a policy we would be opening up the FFF for legal problems. I see benefits from videoing the sessions but I think this is something that should be more for a run through. The main reason to videoing is for teaching the cast and not teaching the test. Best Jim
Jim Bass
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[GH] From Scott Swartz :
Gordy,
We have used video in private lessons and advanced classes at Atlanta Fly Fishing School since 1999. It works GREAT! (I recall using video at night when you were visiting and we were trying to capture the precise moment a loop is formed).
However, we have not been able to utilize video in Florida due to the lack of large dark backgrounds like hardwoods. In many locations it is not possible to capture the fly line in flight. With so many variables to video I do not believe it is viable to even consider it for testing. The remaining question is should it be allowed if requested?
Capt. Scott Swartz
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[GH] Scott,
That set-up coupled with Mack Martin's expertise allowed us to see the line in relation to the movement of the rod tip even with high fps. The detailed lighting arrangement along with that black background worked well. I'm not a photo guy, but my guess is that when videoing at many testing venues the details would vary a lot. Even getting a picture of the layouts as with curve casts and mends would require attention to detail re the angles of shooting, etc.
A lot better when the whole event is carefully staged and done with expert casters and experienced videographers as a teaching tool.
Gordy
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[GH] From Walter Simbirski :
Gordy,
I think an interesting experiment would be to have videos made. Each video would have no sound and would show someone (a different person in each video) performing one task from the test. The videos would then be circulated to experienced examiners and each examiner (without consulting anybody else) would say whether they felt the person passed that task and why they did or did not pass. I would be willing to bet that there would be some consistent pass/fails and some that are very inconsistent.
Another interesting addition to the experiment would be to film each caster/task from two different angles (say head on and from the side). After getting feedback from one angle then see if the ratings change when the other angle is shown.
Cheers
Walter
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[GH] Walter,
We can pretty well predict what the results would be !
Gordy
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