Loop formation problem 3

Picking up on the second two questions, adjustment of loop width by altering the convexity of the rod tip path through the casting stroke is not generally accepted in the UK either, although it is a topic that can give rise to some confusion.

This method will indeed change the loop width but at the expense of casting efficiency and lack of parallel legs, loops being domed and in extreme cases non-loops.

To achieve an efficient cast with parallel loop legs the rod tip must describe a straight or near straight line path through the stroke prior to line launch. The resulting width of the loop is then controlled by the degree of rotation of the rod tip during the stop phase.

The rod tip movement through both stages, before and after line launch, is seamless, the rod tip path through the entire motion being initially straight and ending with a convex path to the stop. The length of this ending convex path positions the rod tip away from the straight line path it described through the stroke prior to line launch and this separation distance determines the loop width.

As always, the caster controls the rod tip path by appropriate acceleration, stroke length and rotation in response to the line mass and rod action. Clearly, to create very wide parallel loops adequate line length is necessary.

One item in it is, I think, simplistic to make a point. That is his 2. (3) which states: "The rod tip is stopped as close beneath the moving portion of the fly line as possible".

Looking at this critically, we note that the rod tip is not "stopped" at this point as close to the fly line as possible ... rather that the tiny interval between line launch and the rod straight position (RSP) related to the initiation of the "stop sequence" should be very close to that of the oncoming fly line. (The rod tip passes rapidly through RSP and makes its first stop at maximum counterflex position. (MCP)).

Whether looking at the simplistic or the enhanced version, I think Al was right on target as to the principle differences between the forming of a small loop and that of a large loop. Basically, how much convexity is added at the end of the casting stroke.

An obvious exception is the doming path of the rod tip with convexity throughout the entire stroke as oft seen with beginner casters.

I find that the difficulty in achieving reasonably parallel loop legs with big loops increases with the size of the loop. Also, for me, there is an optimum amount of line carried to make this doable.

A prevailing concept of "casting stroke" recognizes it as ending when loop is formed, this instant variously stated to be at RSP-1 or at maximum counterflex. "Stop" is a part of "casting stroke".

Allow me to suggest that "casting stroke" should end at line launch, after which the "stop" sequence begins. "Stop" itself ends at maximum counterflex. With this definition of "casting stroke" and "stop", loop size and loop shape may be more clearly explained thus:

Open loop: casting stroke with SLP short and rising (in relation to the target), followed by large "stop". (Profile of upper leg: dome-shaped).

1) Wonky open loop profiling a large dome-shaped upper leg with barely discernible short straight tail segment (representing a brief rising SLP). Or

2) Wide loop profiling a long straight upper leg parallel to and separated from its lower leg by six feet (where rod tip halts at maximum counterflex six-plus feet below point of line launch).

Interesting in that your way of looking at it actually fits with Lefty Kreh's non-scientific, "direct teaching" approach ! (below).

David Edens' problem with his clients presentations casts is one that I have with nearly all of my students. It happens on the casting lawn too. Just this week I was working with a club group of about 40 beginning and intermediate casters and everyone of them had a problem with the forward stop on the presentation cast. (especially when I had them casting to a target?).

I think the propensity to: aim, reach, guide, follow through, with our arm on that presentation is overwhelming.

One of the problems is when they see a proficient caster make his presentation cast after a couple of false casts, the forward stop is almost imperceptible before the non-powered follow through is executed.

One thing that helped my students this weekend was to make them concentrate on a elevated target in the distance; like a sign on a building or a group of leaves on a tree. I would tell them to stop their cast as if to hit that target and then allow the rod to follow the line to the ground.

I think this problem is exacerbated by teaching the PULD as our first drill. "Pick-up the line from the lawn then lay it down on the lawn.

Great answers to adjusting loop size but none answer David's question on the client who actually throws nice loops until the final presentation or what I call the "Last cast syndrome." We all see this commonly.

I usually first just try explaining what he is doing and sometimes they remember but sometimes in the heat of the moment again they forget. They do this I think for two main reasons:

I don't have a secret cure if they don't remember, but one thing I have tried is to tell them to aim about 4 or 5 feet above the water. Sometimes that gets them to stop the rod sooner and higher, if not tell them a little higher. If it works then hopefully they will get the idea and you can adjust how high they need to throw depending on conditions.

When practicing on land and they do this, I sometimes stand in front of them, hold my arm out and tell them to cast over it.

Glad you added that, LAST CAST SYNDROME ! It speaks to those who know how to make efficient loops but forget how it's done in the excitement of making an actual presentation to a fish.

Let's remember: DAVID EDENS IS LOOKING FOR A QUICK "CURE" WHICH WILL WORK WITH A CLIENT OUT ON THE CASTING DECK OF A FLATS SKIFF. No time for theory, fancy casting mechanics, or physics. He's got to get to a "cure" in time to save the day.

Lefty Kreh sometimes tells the angler who is doing that, "don't use any more power for your last cast than you did on your previous false cast. Just haul faster."

Lefty offers a "non-physics" explanation for loop control. Whether we agree with it from a scientific standpoint or not, it really works when teaching students :

"Once the rod is bent, straining against the line, on either the backcast or forward cast, the line is taught and aimed at the rod tip. While casting, the rod hand is a pivot causing the tip of the rod to travel in an arc. During the speed-up-and-stop, the tip will duck away from the oncoming line. The farther the tip tips away from the line, the larger the loop. The shorter the speed-up-and stop, the less the rod tip dips and the tighter the loop." *

Sometimes he gives a grossly simplified command like this, "Try to hit the tip of your rod with the line....." The caster often makes his first really tight loop. This is a form of "direct teaching" in which there is no attempt to teach the student any science or true casting mechanics ... but which sometimes works well. Guides who have become good fly casting instructors sometimes use this method when they have only a very short time to get their client to actually be able to cast properly to fish.

Your last suggestion sometimes works well. I have done it by standing directly in front of the caster so that if he doesn't do it correctly, the rod will hit me in the head. (The student gets the picture fast ... so I've never actually been struck.)

Sometimes, I go to a "Hands-on" method. I make the cast with the caster going along for the ride as he feels what I'm doing. Then we do it together. Lastly, HE makes the cast and I go along for the ride. For some faulty casters, that works quickly and well.

[GH] We have many new messages in the "hopper" on this topic, Casting injuries, and Rod loading to air when I return.