Walter & Group....
[GH] From Mack Martin on loops made with an off vertical casting plane:
Gordy:
Thought you might be interested in a program that I gave at the CE session at Unicoi last year and again at the CE session in Orlando last October, that shows how to measure loops that are formed out of a vertical plane. The approach is quite accurate and employes the use of an IPad. I can send you the PP presentation if you like. The analysis examines two different errors that can influence the apparent size of an off vertical loop. The most significant is shown below. The program actually shows the dynamic loop size error and demonstrates how to make the measurement.
This approach could be used to address differences in loop sizes between forward and back casts when a caster presents loops off the vertical plane.
Regards….
Mack Martin
Atlanta Fly Fishing School
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[GH] Makes good sense to me. Uses some basic trigonometry to do the job! *
I note that your "caster" is forming a controlled medium wide loop. (SLP of the rod tip, then unloading with late convexity with the tip dipped below the oncoming line.)
Your triangle diagram shows clearly, even without doing the math, why a moderately large diameter loop can appear to an observer standing at one side to be a very tiny loop. It can even make the leading edge of the loop appear to be sharp rather than convex.
For those who are not inclined to embrace math or physics; before your eyes glaze over, I have a far less accurate non-scientific method to get the general idea of off vertical loop sizes.
The observer crouches beneath the loops being formed in the off vertical plane and looks up. As he does this, he gains a rough idea of the plane used and tilts his head to adjust his vision to that plane.
It would be interesting to have this done both ways at the same time and then compare results !!!!!
Crawling back into the real World of teaching students loop formation, however, I wonder how we could actually put it to use for a casting class (??) It is of great value for the "need to know folks" among us.
When I take a caster who boasts of being able to make loops only 1' wide and ask him to place those loops between 2 ropes stretched out parallel to one another on the ground, 12" apart, I found it rare for even one loop to comply. If he does it with his first try and gloats with glee, I have him try it again. He never can.
Some of the members of the Master Testing Committee, I understand, came as close as they could to actually measuring various loops as they were formed against a background of vertical poles with markings on them. As I recall, they learned that most loops were judged smaller than they actually were when measured against the marked poles.
I think Joe Libeu was part of that team. He'd be able to comment more accurately than I can, since I wasn't there when this was done. (If done with video, one might have to consider the effect of parallax.) This led to some changes in the stated loop size requirement on the exams.
* [Before the days of Loran and GPS, I used to use trig. tables after taking a back azimuth pelorus reading on a nautical marker to calculate the side slip of my skiff due to wind and current to pin-point navigate to a fishing site out in the Ocean. (Correction of compass course to COG.).* We used a stop-watch with the engines at a pre-set RPM to judge distance.** We dropped a buoy as the watch was clicked and then ran a grid 'til we found the wreck, rocks, or whatever we sought. The invention of modern instruments took all the fun out of navigation. Now anyone with a GPS can find these spots, so most of them are overfished.]
* [COG = Course over ground.]
** [RPM = Revolutions per minute]
Gordy
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[GH] Tom Dempsey brings up a problem I've noted occasionally, especially when off-vertical casters change to a vertical rod plane style for a particular purpose, thus briefly leaving their default style :
I am also a saltwater caster with a little off vertical style ,very easy to watch your loops esp. on the back cast .But it seems like when you go truly vertical the back cast loop tend to be harder to control with regards to size.We talked a bit about this with Tim Rajeff .He suggested stopping the rod on the back cast almost perpendicular to the plane of the ground .Humm working on that now.
Any tips on keeping that back cast tight on the vertical casting style?
Tom
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Tom,
Any time a caster leaves his usual way of casting (his "default style") some adjustments have to be made.
Having said that, I know that truly expert casters finally get comfortable with casting with many different styles. Learning to do that is good training for MCI candidates.
Tim has given you good "direct teaching" advice. If you are opening up your back cast loops when casting in the vertical plane, then the first thing I'd try is to STOP EARLIER AND HIGHER.
Having someone else critique your back loops will go a long way toward refining this.
Joan Wulff teaches this style to her beginning students. She sometimes teaches the use of what she calls a "body block" to help the student stop earlier. I've watched her "cure" a student's wide or open back loops quickly by this means.
She describes this in her new book: "Your maximum stroke length on the backcast, through arm motion, comes when your forearm muscle touches your upper arm muscle. That "coming together" of those muscles produces the strongest stop! possible. I call it a "body block", and I always use it." *
This works for short and medium length casts. Not for long ones, because you cannot gain sufficient stroke length or casting arc for distance. For distance casts, Joan opens up her stance and uses an off vertical casting plane.
When taking the Master casting exam, you are making short casts for Task 1, carrying only 45' - 50' (13.7m - 15.2m) of line.
* Joan Wulff's NEW FLY-CASTING TECHNIQUES, by Joan Wulff, 2012, p. 81.
Gordy
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[GH] LET'S SEE IF SOME OF YOU CAN OFFER TOM SOME ADDITIONAL TIPS.
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