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Walter & Group...
[GH] We'll include comments and suggestions re fly casting definitions. Let me repeat,however, that I do not think it is the job of this Group to actually come up with a complete model which would include multiple definitions as well as a rational interrelationship between each and every one.
Simply crafting a definition for any one of the fly casting terms without relating it to the others has little merit.
I know from years of past experience that if we did undertake that project, we'd not leave this topic for a very long time, indeed !
Gordy
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Craig Buckbee responds to Jim Chestnut:
Gordy,
A quick thought on Jim's response to Paul's :
If Creep is part of the Casting Arc then we lose that, so I would have to ask what is Jim's definition of Creep?
Creep isn’t part of the Casting Arc. Creep is "unintentional movement of the rod in the direction of the next casting arc."
And here perhaps some of the separation of Creep and Slide : Intent ?
Craig
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Paul Arden also responds to Jim Chestnut's message:
Hi Jim,
I realise (and I'm sure you know too!) that we could go around in circles, but it is deciding the actual beginning of Casting Arc that is one of the problems. If we pick Rod Straight on backcast, Casting Arc would include Creep.
I don't know if I'm allowed to say this - Gordy will edit it out if I'm not - the Glossary committee picked rotational acceleration that was sufficient to cause a loop if continued.
Sexyloops picked when the purpose of the action was to form a loop.
It is in those two wholly different approaches that created multiple definitions conflicts between the two groups. The reason there was a conflict in the first place was because some of us felt that the proposed definitions we had access to would be very damaging and we believed the CBOG would approve the definitions if we didn't do anything. I still believe that probably would have happened. And that would have been much messier.
Cheers, Paul
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[GH] Paul,
Say anything you wish .... no editing stuff out, here.
If ever I find a message with content inappropriate for our Group discussions, I contact the sender privately. I rarely find it necessary to do that.
You hit the nail squarely on the head.
The "sufficient to...." concept was one of the reasons I think the FFF definitions were not approved by the board. Some felt that by excluding DRAG from the CASTING STROKE because by itself it wouldn't be sufficient to result in loop formation, left the CASTING STROKE almost purely a matter of rotation providing enough acceleration for loop formation.
Also: I recall that some on our FFF Glossary Committee, were averse to having any statement relating to intent, state of mind or fault.
In the past, I've sent out a copy of the Sexyloops definitions .... but, realizing that there have been some changes, I'm not certain it was the latest rendition. Can you help us with that ?
Gordy
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[GH] What do you think of when someone mentions the term, LINE CONTROL ?
Speaking of definitions, this is a term which means different things to different fly casters.
This from Charlie Shedd:
Dear Gordy,
This subject is really interesting. I have always had a problem of having the person understand what I say. Sometimes have to give several explanations. You mentioned about having people cast with a hedge behind them I have done this or put the caster into a situation where they have to change. Trees fences etc. When I got serious about casting I watched and learned from what the line was doing. Watching as many people cast as I could and see what their line was doing.Easy good looking cast or way to much effort with result being not so good a cast. As the fly is attached to leader and then line.
Lately I have been trying to use the words LINE CONTROL quite often So far I feel it is making a difference. If I can get the person to think line control Great. You and I do it without thinking. The average caster probably does not Example of getting back cast caught in grass. All I have to do is mention line control So far this has led to help solve the problems
charlie
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[GH] Charlie,
I have witnessed a question on MCI orals which goes something like this: "What does line control mean to you ?"
I see five or six ways of looking at the term, LINE CONTROL. No formal definition I'm aware of:
1. Line control can mean proper handling of the line out of the rod tip during the cast.
2. Or, controlling the line after the cast as in mending.
3. It can also refer to handling and controlling the line between the reel and the first stripper guide as line is shot on a distance cast.
4. A third way of looking at line control is the manner in which the line out of the rod tip is maintained when a caster is "at the ready" prior to a speed cast (salt water quick cast).
5. Still another way of looking at this term is the way line is handled during the retrieve including the manner in which it is coiled on the bank, in hand, in a stripping basket, or on the deck of a flats skiff.
6. Ally Gowans has mentioned the fact that we need to get the line "organised" prior to making a pick--up back cast. (Taking up slack, etc.) This is "line control" before we even make the cast.
Gordy
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