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Walter & Group...
[GH] I WILL BE AWAY UNTIL THE SECOND WEEK IN JANUARY.
LET ME WISH ALL OF YOU A MERRY CHRISTMAS AND A GREAT NEW YEAR !
[GH] Capt. Paul Rose has commented on our present string of topics. He follows by asking a specific question on tarpon flies. I have placed his message and my answers in an attachment.
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[GH] Return message on CREEP from Steve Smith:
Thanks for the input Gordy. I need a little clarification of creep because I thought it is moving the rod in the opposite direction of the line before the line has completely unrolled. You say the caster can come forward too soon with or without creep but if the line is still unrolling is that not creeping? Thx Steve
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[GH] You are correct in that creep IS movement of the rod in the direction of the next cast usually before the back cast loop has unfurled.
Putting it in different words, creep is slow movement of the rod in a direction opposite that of an unrolling or nearly unrolled loop.
The key word, here, is SLOW.
The caster can also creep later, as the back cast loop has almost fully unfurled.
Creep can occur either following a back cast or following a forward cast. The latter is rare. (Some have called that, "reverse creep").
Creep is minimally powered movement, however, with no more rod acceleration than "zero to slow"... so it cannot result, by itself, in "cracking the whip" and losing the fly.
It is possible to creep and then start your powered cast while the back cast loop has not nearly unfurled and snap off the fly.....but the "snap off" wasn't caused by the creep. That would be an example of two different casting faults occurring during the same cast. (Might even result in snapping off the fly as the result of one fault AND having a tailing loop as the result of a second fault.)
I look at the main problem with creep as shortening available casting arc for the next cast. Some popular descriptions of creep include shortening both stroke length and casting arc. (Depends upon your "definition" of casting stroke). The final result is usually a tailing loop. Not the "bull whip" effect.
That tailing loop is caused by the caster using up some of the casting arc needed to move the amount of line carried as he creeps. In order to throw that much line, he must use increased force over a shorter distance resulting in a dip and upward return of the rod tip path...i.e. a concave tip path. This, in turn, yields a line wave which propagates out in the direction of the cast resulting in a cross-over between the fly leg and the rod leg sometimes with a collision and a so-called, "wind knot".
Gordy
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[GH] Gary Davison sends his "short answer":
Gordy
My short answer for the cure to this problem is " Drift".
Long answer to follow.
Gary
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[GH] Gary,
Drifting the rod tip back in the direction of the unrolling loop will help solve the problem if it is done with enough time to allow that back cast loop to unfurl before starting the forward stroke. *
The "layback" used by Gary and Jason Borger can have the same effect. **
Many saltwater casters use a style described by Lefty Kreh and Ed Jaworowski which involves bringing the rod tip back without a separate drift maneuver, as I think you know. In Lefty's latest book, he states that he doesn't recommend the drift for new casters, but does use it for his longest casts.***
Either way, the fault must be eliminated by spending sufficient pause time for the back cast loop to almost fully unfurl in order to prevent "cracking the whip".
* Joan Wullf's FLY CASTING TECHNIQUES, by Joan Wulff, 1987, pp. 33-34, 220, 235.
** Jason Borger's NATURE OF FLY CASTING, by Jason Borger, 2001, pp. 232, 233.
*** CASTING with LEFTY KREH, by Lefty Kreh, 2008, p. 53.
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[GH] Bob Garber comes in with some nice, "crisp" answers:
QUESTIONS:
1. What was happening to make that fly come off the tippet?
The tippet unrolled at very high rate of speed with a lot of energy.
2. Describe the likely movement made by the student to make this happen.
Beginning the forward cast before the back cast loop had unrolled.
3. Describe the likely rod motion resulting from the caster's action.
I would think that the rod had a slow or no stop on the back cast with a rapid or abrupt forward cast.
4. How did the line behave as a result of this rod movement?
The line snapped around at high rate of speed.
5. Can you describe what probably happened to the leader?
The leader accelerated very rapidly due to the excess energy traveling down it's length.
6. What step(s) would you take to correct the problem?
Have the student wait until the loop was almost unrolled before making the forward cast. This could be done by watching his back cast, using a counting method for the pause or by feeling the tug on the rod tip by the line's momentum as it straightens on the back cast. Also have the student use smooth acceleration on both the back and forward casts with good stops.
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[GH] Using different words, Bob Stouffer sends his descriptions :
1. What was happening to make that fly come off the tippet? The leader snaps and frays from a radical change of direction in excess of the material's capability.
2. Describe the likely movement made by the student to make this happen. The student's timing of the cast is suspect. Watch the cast and you will probably see that, prior to the leader unrolling, the student is gunning the rod forward. Did not pause prior to starting the forward stroke.
3. Describe the likely rod motion resulting from the caster's action. The rod tip transitions from back-cast to forward cast without a pause. The rod usually travels in tight 180 degree alignment for an intermediate caster.
4. How did the line behave as a result of this rod movement? The fly leg is being over-accelerated and the line builds a bulge at the transition. This bulge causes the line to curve at high speed at counterflex.
5. Can you describe what probably happened to the leader? The leader swings the tippet into a radical curve that causes the fly to take a position forward of the bend in the leader. The fly becomes momentarily stationary as the high speed leader reverses its course. This causes an overstressing of the tippet at the fly connection.
6. What step(s) would you take to correct the problem? If the problem is the timing, ask the caster to use either a drift or layback at the end of the back-cast stroke to reinforce the stop-pause. Use an aural or visual timing gimmick of your choosing to reinforce the pause and subsequent stroke.
Bob Stouffer
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[GH] Bob. Re: your 6.
Many ways to reinforce that timing issue with students. Lefty Kreh does this when the early student is casting with a given length of line.
He has the caster make the back cast, then pause long enough to say, " California is a great place to be from." Then make the forward cast. (He first asks them where they are from, and has the student use that location.)
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[GH] Good "word pictures" from Lewis Hinks:
1. What was happening to make that fly come off the tippet? Forward cast begins before the backcast has time to unfurl. Poor timing
2. Describe the likely movement made by the student to make this happen. Student did not pause at the end of the backcast, prior to beginning the forward cast, or did not pause long enough relative to the cast length.
3. Describe the likely rod motion resulting from the caster's action. Rod is being moved forward too early.
4. How did the line behave as a result of this rod movement? Line sped up as it unfurled, 'rounded the turn' too quickly
5. Can you describe what probably happened to the leader? Leader parted due to excess line speed there was no time for the energy in the cast to dissipate. (NB. The leader serves to not only act as an nearly invisible connection between the fly line and the leader, it also acts to continue the energy dissipation that was begun by the line taper. If too much energy is still in the leader, when it reaches the fly, due to excess line speed as a result of poor timing, the energy is expended quickly, resulting the loud 'crack' we hear. The knot cannot withstand that amount of energy. I would not be surprised that there is some heat generated at this point as well, but I will leave that to the engineers and physicists on the group.)
6. What step(s) would you take to correct the problem? Have the student pause longer before initiating the forward cast. For practice casting, open their stance and watch the cast unfurl at different cast lengths, so they can see and feel the pause length required for various casts.
Gordy
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[GH] From Len Anderson :
1. Too much energy for tippet to support
2.Creep, followed by too much force applied to make up for slack felt.
3.Probably concave tip path
4.Tailing loop
5.Too much energy caused tippet to break possibly from the weight of the fly
6.I would explain what happened, show what happened, show how to correct the cast, and watch the student try to correct the cast.
Len Anderson
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[GH] Len,
I like the fact that you used short answers. On an exam, you would be given a chance to expand.
I agree with 1., 5., and 6.
Study the other answers and comments and then think. You may wish to reconsider answers, 2., 3., and 4.
Gordy
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