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Walter & Group...
[GH] From Hank Wu :
Hi Gordy,
Is it possible because the leader is not fully straightened on the forward cast, so the next backcast( as shown on the photo) start with a little slack leader.
And because the leader is slack, so the backcast has no enough energy to unroll the leader. That is why the leader pointed to the ground, I guess.
Cheers
Hank
ҵ iPhone
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[GH] From Server Sadik :
Hello all,
These are great photos because they allow some real diagnosis to be performed. I have been holding back from commenting on commentary on the board for several months because I am trying to get all my thoughts about fly casting physics organized for a seminar//class for advanced casters I hope to be presenting at the Conclave this August. However Jeff's photos allow some facts to be presented on the basis of the photos and these will dispel some of the questionable commentary published recently. I am not answering Jeff's questions in the numbering below - these are my observations from the photos
1) The first photo is in the early portion of the forward cast. That is why the rod leg of the line is so straight. The translational forward hand motion has directly affected this portion of the line. I think you can readily envision that Jeff's hand was further back at the end of the back cast!! (Question for Jeff - is that a 100 ft mint green Airflo Distance line?? What color is the backing you have on that reel?). It seems that everyone is assuming that this picture is in the back cast stage. However the photo indicates to me that it is the initial portion of the forward cast.
2) It isn't entirely clear what Jeff's back cast style is from the 2 photos. His comments would be welcome. However it might be that it is dominated by casting in near a vertical plane. If you account for hand and rod tip elevation you can see that the rod tip could be raised vertically by 8 feet at maximum rod loading compared to its lowest position. This lift gives the entire fly line and leader an upward trajectory while the rod is being loaded. Judging from the appearance of the leader it appears that at some portion of rod unloading the trajectory of the tip changed. The rod tip rose and affected only a portion of the line-leader system. (In the seminar I will explain this using some of the video that Aitor has produced.) The speed of all points on the line-leader are about the same BUT part of the fly line is moving upward which reduces its horizontal velocity. The leader was not redirected into a more upward trajectory and consequently is actually moving faster in the horizontal direction than the fly line in front of it and is overtaking it. That is why it appears the leader is sagging - it is overtaking the upward directed fly line.
3) Now bear in mind in the first photo that the back cast is completely over. Notice the position in space of the upper rod leg. It is a long way from being straight. My guess is that the front of the fly line wasn't much beyond Jeff's shoulder when he started the forward cast. This is inconsistent with what Jeff stated earlier in his commentary on Hang Time. There aren't many photos or videos around that allow you to observe this stage of the cast - line configuration when the forward cast is initiated. I have a tape - Fly Casting with Lefty Krey (1992 - produced by Gary Borger) - which at the very end of the video has the camera angles and background to allow you to observe when Lefty started his forward cast on one particular cast. It looked like the end of the fly line was about vertically over his shoulder - a long way from being straight. Maybe others who have this tape can examine it and comment on what they see. From a physics//mechanics point of view this can be an advantage because casting is a "resistance starved" process and the main resistance available to the caster is the rod's momentum and the fly line momentum. (I use this terminology in the seminar I am preparing.) Having rearward fly line momentum adds to the momentum available to provide resistance. This is quite different than board inputs produced over the last several weeks and should give you something to think about. I don't plan on getting and answering questions unless it is imperative.
Jeff, that was a great set of photos. It puts a lot into perspective. It would be nice if you talked more about the cast. For example - did you turn and follow the back cast? color of your backing and length of fly line? any thing else that would amplify on the cast.
Best regards - Server
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[GH] From Jeff Wagner :
Gordy, if possible could you have Lefty expound on his comment. I would be interested to hear more about his take on:
- pros and cons a vertical casting stroke; advice on changing to a different stroke?
- Drift? he mentioned that, what is his take and is it that the drift in this instance is ineffective or drift in general is ineffective
- Long? he also mentioned the LONG vertical back cast. What is meant by long and what advice can he given to help improve the cast
I look forward to hearing his comments and learning!
Thanks,
Jeff Wagner
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[GH] Lefty replies :
Gordy - Jeff........
Here is a reply but I don't have time to go into great detail but will try to highlight my reasons.
Feel free to edit slightly if you wish.
Jeff your problems occurred because you made a LONG backcast was in the vertical mode.
There are casting principles to think about when making a long vertical backcast.
Once the rod on the backcast reaches a vertical position it can no longer deliver a straight backcast. When it passes vertical some of the energy is directed down and back.
Almost every fly fishermen making and extra long backcast causes the rod to either pass beyond vertical or stops it so abruptly that the rod tip rod sweeps down and back. That is what happened to the deep sag in your back cast in the photo.
To make a straight line back cast the rod must stop while it is rising and the tip cannot dip down and back after the stop.
It takes many hours of practice to learn when to stop before passing vertical, something our students don't have time for.
Twoonce you made the stop you drifted the rod back. WHY?
Most will say so I can get a longer forward stroke to build increased line speed and load the rod deeper. If the is true then why would you make a vertical backstroke that can only accelerate the rod line a brief distance and reduces the amount of load available?
By lowering the rod hand and swiveling the body while making an angled or side cast the rod can continue to rise long after the hand passes beyond the body AND STILL STOP GOING UP. Since the angled or side stroke is vastly extended it can build more line speedincrease rod loading and stop in an upward directionrequiring no drift and a flat backcast minus any sag.
Consider this: if you were to throw a spear and long distance would you make a vertical backstroke or would you NATURALLY lower the hand draw it back low and then accelerate a long distance?
No other sport advocates using only the arm and wrist to complete a task. Even in ping-pond people use their body.
Lefty
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