Hi Gordy,
I have a few comments about definitions.
Why do we create definitions and who do we create them for? Everyone needs to know and
understand some level of definitions. For example, I teach all of my beginning fly fishing students
about line weights, hook sizes, etc. I do this so that when they walk in to a fly shop to buy a
dry fly rod for mountain streams they don't end up with a 10 wt rod with matching 7 wt fast sinking
line and a box full of streamers and midges in size 2 or larger. I don't teach beginners terms like
rsp, slp, launch point, etc. because they are already on information overload by the time the terms
would be useful. But I may use terms like "smooth application of power", even though in the
back of my mind I will be thinking that "smooth" has no specific meaning and "power" is the wrong word,
because most people have an idea of what "smooth application of power" means or they quickly understand
when they try it. Similarly the idea of loop size being controlled by the length of your "speed up
and stop" is confusing as heck if we over analyze it but it conveys an idea to most people.
All well and good but what about when we try to convey an idea to a casting instructor who lives on the
other side of the globe via email. "Smooth application of power" is going to generate (or it should) more
questions than answers. "Constant torque" provides a wealth of information in just two words because
of the correctness and preciseness of the words being used and because most of the people in your
discussion group have spent time discussing these terms and understand them.
Most of the stuff we are struggling with has little to do with beginner students. We want them to have fun
so they will enjoy the sport. The technical definitions are for us - not the students.
Another comment is that we often try to use technical terms from other fields (physics, engineering,
medicine, etc.) because they seem to make sense but this can lead to confusion. A case in point is
the word "load" - in engineering terms "load" is the amount of force exerted on a body. I don't know how
"load" got into the fly casting instructor lexicon but my guess is that somebody (most likely an engineer)
realized that the amount of bend in the rod is a direct measure of the "load" on the rod so it was logical
to think of load and bend as being synonymous. As instructors we like to know that, all other things being
equal, the greater the bend in the rod the longer the cast and -what are the things that bend the rod?
As the skill levels of our students increase we find ways of introducing these ideas to our students but
we will communicate them in ways that make sense to our students. So the introduction of the term "load"
has been beneficial to our sport but since we don't have a formal definition it can lead to confusion. We've
probably all been presented with the scenario of holding a rod horizontally by the handle such that gravity
bends the rod and then been asked if the rod is loaded. If our definition is that load is a measure of the
bend in the rod then by definition any time a rod is bent it is loaded. But if we lack a formal definition we
open the door for the question, "Is it possible to bend the rod without loading it?" This is a bit of a pet
peeve for me because it is a time waster and also it allows words in our lexicon to be used as weapons
(i.e. how can I confound this CI candidate?) rather than as tools.
Cheers
Walter
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2011 7:56 AM
Subject: Glossary of terms / definitions
Walter & Group...
[GH] I have received many private messages and phone calls on the subject of coming up with a generally accepted glossary of fly casting terms as a set of definitions which will work for teaching and discussions.
As we've already pointed out, there has been no agreement on any single one despite the efforts of various organizations.
I think most of us see value in having a good set of definitions at least as a basis from which we can work and depart as needed.
Then I had an idea:-
Some of our members asked whether or not the same problem existed with other sports which have instructor groups and schools.
Why not inquire and find out whether or not these other organizations have been successful in coming up with their own sets of definitions or glossaries ?
To this end, I contacted Jim Phillips who has been a senior ski instructor for many years. He is also a member of our Group :
Jim,
As I think about what we have been going through with our FFF Glossary Committee and the various entities including Sexyloops which have their own attempts at forming definition lists and glossaries, it made me wonder about terms used in other sports including golf and tennis.
How about terms used for Ski schools and Ski instruction ?
Best,
Gordy
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Gordy,
Ski schools and ski instruction have struggled with many terms over the years and many new terms arrive each year as equipment changes and new terms are introduced from other countries and ski instruction innovators. Take an old popular term "steering" for example. One can steer the knee, steer the ski, the foot, etc. I have never liked or used the term because it is not specific, clear, or can mean many things to students. "Press down on the ball of the big toe, bend the knee forward and in the direction you want to turn,etc" are clear, precise, concise and project a mental image or picture of what you want the student to do.
I don't believe in "normal" ski instruction ( vs "racing" or "competition") the student or instructor has to worry about as many terms and technical aspects as fly casting, e.g. fly leg, rod leg, hoop strength and diameter, tailing loops vs underslung loops, etc. But new and poor instructors in any discipline can confuse, overwhelm, and frustrate students by being too technical or dogmatic with terms and procedures.
Different Area and National ski schools have been trying for years to commonly define terms, movements, and instruction and have made progress--BUT this is a continually evolving process and too many egos to get 100% agreement. This has been true in my 41 years of ski instruction. I'm like Lefty, I tell my students that ski and fly and fun all have three letters and that FUN is the most important.
Hope this helps answer your question and if you need more, please let me know.
Cheers, Jim P
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[GH] Jim, Thanks. That is just what I was looking for.
You are right about Lefty's FUN. If our definitions are too rigid and ultra scientific it won't be fun to work and teach with them.
I had a "fun guy" as an expert ski instructor years ago at Breckenridge. He was uncanny about taking the fear and rigidity out of it. I learned a lot and had a great time doing it.
My wife, Priscilla, had been totally turned off skiing after taking a course in Switzerland with what she called, "My Nazi ski instructor". She never skied again.
G.
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[GH] I sent the same basic message to Peter Minnick who is also in our Group and has been an avid golfer for years. His reply :
"Note: The Golf Glossary is a work in progress. If you do not see the term you are looking for,
drop us a line and we'll work on getting it added to our golf glossary."
Gordy..
That's a very interesting question and I've been mulling it over for the better part of the day. I went on line to check out golf glossary and even that is a "work in progress".
I want to do some research but I think we need to answer some questions about what you're trying to accomplish here. Recently there was a thread that suggested that the glossary be very simple and straight forward and be a depository for someone who wanted to learn about fly casting.I don't think anyone can argue with that.
In golf and tennis the rules and terminology are determined by the USGA & USTA. It doesn't matter how you do it as long as you abide by the rules and if you get the ball in the hole before your opponent and hit the last good tennis stroke you win.
As Mel said "fly casting is an art form and is akin to watching a beautifully choreographed dance." There really isn't any win/lose definity and it's a very subjective thing. I think Dennis Grant's "It depends" really does sum it up.
So you have the subject,the teacher and the audience and they could all disagree. Fly casting doesn't have any authoritative governing body like golf and tennis but I think that's healthy and makes it more interesting.That's why we have the distinction between substance and style....Not sure where I'm going with this but wanted to respond and try to put your very difficult task in perspective... your thoughts ?
Peter
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Peter,
Difficult task ? Indeed.
I note that each glossary or set of terms/definitions is, "a work in progress".
That suggests to me that even if and when the FFF comes up with its own, that it will also have to be sufficiently flexible to allow change when indicated on the basis of new information and/or new ways of looking at fly casting. Further, that we must also recognize the definitions of other fly casting groups and organizations which may see fly casting with a different perspective.
If this is so, then as MCI candidates are examined, we as examiners will have to be conversant with the prevailing sets of definitions of other organizations and include them as accepted answers so long as the thought process of the candidate is logical.
( I suppose the MCI candidate who knows the definitions of the various organizations and is conversant with the differences would be exceptional. )
I often think of Dennis Grant's "It depends". True for so many things in fly casting !
Gordy
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[GH] Question from Bob Rumph :
Hi Gordy & Group,
Would it not be correct to assume that it is a solid comprehension of Dennis Grant's "Style versus Substance" final comment "It depends." And this recent discussion's outcome concerning the "Essentials" and accompanying "Variables" are part and parcel of what separates the education at the CCI and MCI levels?
Regards,
Bob Rumpf