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Walter & Group....
[GH] From Gary Eaton :
Gordy,
I see sidearm as a plane not a style. The sidearm plane requires the same tip mechanics as any other plane, only body mechanics truly change.
The suggestion that the current MCI test is over-balanced to freshwater angling rings as disingenuous. In example, the present examinations specifically require -
sidearm casts,
all-plane casts,
Salt water quick casts,
water anchored Two-handed method casts,
double-haul skills,
hauled roll casts,
oval/constant tensions casts in the heavily weighted fly/ sink line portion
roll cast pick-up,
curve casts,
change of direction,
adjustments to wind,
distance accuracy to 55 ft in a circular target.
Operating the rod with each hand
exacting mends
I see each of the above as very applicable to salt more than most fresh water angling. I am weary of the false-advocacy of region-limited candidates expecting the MCI angling community to change to suit them.
If anything the MCI seems over-balanced to techniques that serve coastal angling skills, by the terms used so far. My view of the MCI certification is a greatly enhanced versatility. The comments gleaned recently seem to want to advocate that the CCI should be fresh water and MCI salt water - both are absurd as angling requires a broad range of skills that match the infinite variety of casting challenges.
Gary Eaton
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[GH] Gary...
No argument from me.
1. Of course side arm casting is casting in a particular rod plane / casting plane.
I referred to it as a style when combined with low elbow and stiff wrist techniques.
2. When I called attention to the Master exams being mostly based on fresh water techniques, I did so as a matter of past history. You are correct, that is not presently the case. Spey casting wasn't included in past years, either. Now it is.
3. As you said, having either exam weighted in favor of either salt water casting or fresh fresh water techniques would not be the way to go. We have now gone beyond that.
Gordy
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[GH] Walter Simbirski weighs in :
Hi Gordy -
My 2 cents worth...
One of the things I find on the tests is that they(we) are a bit schizophrenic with respect to our purpose at times.
We are the Federation of Fly Fishers but we are the Casting program and I often see a lot of confusion as a result
of this and some important things that get overlooked. Some examples:
- It is possible to pass the CI level without every demonstrating that you can assemble your equipment or even tie
a granny knot. You certainly don't need to know the head end of a fish from its a$$ end.
- The pile cast is invariably a subject of discussion. Why is that? Because we don't know if it is supposed to
be demonstrated as a fishing cast or a teaching/demonstration cast. I know a few astute examiners who will
ask when that cast would be useful and why you would use it over another slack cast. I've also heard
other examiners, who are just as astute, say that they never use that cast when fishing so they are more
interested in the mechanics and control that the candidate demonstrates. I've also heard examiners who say
that particular task is pointless. (I would be willing to debate the astuteness of that comment).
So my comments (I've ordered them in what I think are in order of importance):
1. What are we trying to accomplish with the tests? Certify casting instructors, fishing instructors, instructors for
instructors, examiners, or some combination of all of the above? When we can make firm decisions about the purpose
of any given test we can define the skill sets that need to be demonstrated.
2. I really like the idea of having drawings of what the expected layout of the line should be at the completion of a task.
We really need consistency and clear expectations.
3. Candidates should be advised of their rights at the beginning of the test and given an idea of what recourse they have
if they think they aren't being treated fairly during the test. I know we have a bill of rights but I think it's too easy to
panic if the situation seems to get a bit strained. A brief cooling off period could go a long way to diffusing a problem.
I have yet to meet an examiner that didn't want his candidate to pass but sometimes personality conflicts happen
and misunderstanding occur. We have a lead examiner and an observer - it might be a good idea to allow a switch off from time to time.
4. If the written test is circulating on the Internet then I have to agree with Mr. McCrimmon - let's have the written
test as the minimum entry requirement and let it evolve or get modified from time to time - but look to other ways
of verifying a candidate's suitability, e.g. actually tie a granny knot, or demonstrate that they know the difference
between a size 2 and a size 16 hook and can select the right leader to tie on. Instead of rewriting the test every
week to prevent cheating maybe we should just have a few versions (all with exact same identical questions and correct answers) but randomize the order of the questions and answers and change the incorrect answers between versions so that there are too many combinations to bother memorizing. That way we know that the candidate can at least read and pick the correct answer irregardless of whether they had access to the questions and answers before the fact.
That should more or less level the playing field for anybody who puts any effort in to learning the material or scans
Google to see if they could get a cheat copy. (Actually maybe we should also circulate a few bogus versions just to
further confound potential cheating?).
5. I would also like to see a bit more history of the sport and the federation. I don't think we need to know the winning
distance for the European distance championship every year from 1833 to present day but I'm often a bit taken aback
and a bit saddened when I ask someone who enquires about CI training and they've never heard of Mel or Joan or Lefty.
6. I wish we could be agnostic with respect to fresh vs salt water but that doesn't seem possible. I would like to see a better balance. I place this comment last not because it isn't as important as some other things but only because I
know there has been some discussion about this and I believe that is recognized and is improving but we still have
some way to go.
Cheers
Walter
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[GH] Walter,
Some good thoughts, there !
My answers to some of your comments :
1. The questions on the CCI written exam do cover both fly casting and fly fishing. The topics on the oral MCI exam cover both. Though not stated (as I think it should be) this indicates that our objectives include the testing of both.
2. YES ! The drawings would making expectations as clear as possible. For over a year, our CCI and MCI
testing committees have been working on the questions and tasks. A few added, and a few deleted....all in the interest of fairness. We've spent many hours on trying to come up with clear EXPECTATIONS. Drawings of the expected layouts should be made.
3. As you may know, I wrote the original Candidate's Bill of Rights. Floyd Franke helped a great deal. Good idea to either read them prior to an exam .... or, in the interests of time, have all the candidates informed of them and where to find them.
When I host a Master exam, I make certain that my co examiner(s) have all the time they need to ask questions. As lead examiner, I introduce the five topics and try to avoid wandering from them. Just prior to the oral exam, I meet with my co examiners to be sure we are on the same "page" as we conduct the exam.
Unfortunately, you are right about conflicts and misunderstandings. We are human.
4. I tried to Google those CCI exams which are said to be out there ..... no success. Dan McCrimmon has computer skills superior to mine, so perhaps he did find them. If someone can actually find a "cheat copy" on the web, I'd like to see it. I doubt it would be of interest to Wikileaks. They are frying bigger fish.
There are several versions of the CCI written test at present with the questions in different order for each.
5. The history of the CICP program is supposed to be covered on the required CCI Workshop. With more inclusive workshops given at times other than the exam day, time will allow a lot more historical detail. Good idea.
6. Balance between fresh and salty fly fishing questions is important. Gary Eaton has made that clear.
Gordy
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