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Walter & jGroup...
[GH] Some great questions are emerging. I'll give my own answers, and enlist help from members of the MCI Testing Committee. Dusty Sprague has offered his help :
From Troy Miller:
This is just a question Gordy –
In all of these tasks that we’re going to be discussing, when distances are specified, are we talking about that length of flyline off the tip, or distance from the toe line to the fly/fuzz landing?
The reason I ask, is that on one like this – a smooth consistent loop under 24” tall for the entire unroll with 50 feet of flyline out is quite a feat if limited to a slow speed with no haul…
Now, if we’re talking toes to fly being 50 feet, then we only have ca. 38 feet of actual flyline out of the tip, it becomes MUCH easier.
Regards,
Troy Miller ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[GH] Troy,
After reading your message, I went out and made the casts. I found :
1. You are correct. It is much easier to have consistent small loops at slow speed when the distance is interpreted to mean "from toes to fly/fuzz landing.
2. Forming loops which appear to be 2' in width (height with casting in the vertical plane) was a lot easier than forming loops which actually measured 2' as determined by casting the loop through a 2' dia. hoop or video using a measuring stick, etc. !
I have been interpreting the distance (45' - 50' ) as an approximation . My own take would be to allow the shorter interpretation.
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[GH] From Mark Milkovitch :
Gordy,
The two items I find “open to interpretation” are:
1. Is the wide loop a “good loop” (an 8’ sideways U with parallel legs) or more a non loop (a crescent shape without parallel legs)?
2. Do candidates perform 2 each: Wide, Medium, Narrow or is this a gradual progression from wide to narrow over the 5 or 6 false casts demonstrating 5 or 6 different size loops?
Thanks,
Mark
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[GH] Mark,
My interpretations :
1. The 8'+ well formed wide loop with reasonably parallel legs on both back cast and forward cast. NOT the "non-loop" with disparate loop legs.
2. The wording, "....then making them increasingly narrow over five to six false casts" leads me to ask for a gradual progression from wide to narrow loops.
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[GH] From Ally Gowans :
Hi Gordy,
It’s the devil’s advocate here again! Trouble looking for a place to happen!
Shouldn’t the question define loops in terms of width (related to the casting plane) rather than height (especially since it refers to “wide”)? Maybe it should simply ask for the separation between parallel fly and rod legs to be varied?
Does when does a wide loop become what some call a “no loop”?
Best wishes,
Ally Gowans
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[GH] Ally,
I interpret the loop measurement in terms of distance between loop legs just behind the loop forward edge. I see that as width.
Of course, it is only in terms of "height" if one is casting in a strictly vertical plane. "Width", I think, is applicable to inter leg distance in any plane. Then it becomes an issue when we think of where that distance should be measured... especially as the distance increases. That point of measurement is not stated on the task description.
I have no definition for "no loop" or "non-loop". A loose description might be considered : "A non-loop is a line shape in which the fly leg approaches a 90 degree angle with the rod leg".
Fortunately, the task as stated does not ask for a "non-loop" to be demonstrated.
My interpretation is that the wide loop which is to be demonstrated should have reasonably parallel loop legs and should be approximately 8' in width.
Although not stated on the task description nor addressed in the expectations or reasons for failure, I do know that some members of the MCI testing committee have voiced preference for this task to be performed with a vertical or near vertical casting plane. They feel that by doing it this way, it is easier for students to see and appreciate the loops and their formation.
There has been discussion as to whether this use of the vertical rod plane (casting plane) constitutes a demand for a particular casting style. I suppose this can be considered a "teaching style" for this particular task.
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[GH] From Doug Swift :
Hi Gordy
As written, this task appears to be a fairly straight forward demonstration. I have a couple of questions.
- I realize that there will probably be a request from the examiner
to explain how you would teach how the various loop sizes are
formed. Assuming that we are "teaching" the examiners,
what expectations, if any, would there be beyond an
explanation and demonstration relating to rod tip path and the
various causes and cures for any faults.
- Would the candidate be faulted for watching their back casts
during the demonstration portion of the task.?
Thanks
Doug.
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[GH] Doug,
I would suggest that when asked to teach the mechanics of loop formation and size control, that the candidate begin with a simplistic description (rod tip path, etc.) which he would actually use in teaching new casters.
As Al Buhr has aptly pointed out, that is only a "half truth"..... but it serves to teach our beginners.
The examiner may then ask the candidate to teach advanced casters the details of loop formation and size determination. This will require explanations and matching demonstrations which go way beyond.
I've found that almost all casters form better back cast loops when they can watch them. I asked Floyd Franke about that for MCI exam purposes. His response, "If you don't watch them, THEY will." (Referring to the examiners)
It isn't that simple, however. Especially since this task is expected to be accomplished with ease and expertise which might be sullied by the candidate looking back. In addition, while it is easy to gracefully observe one's back cast loops when casting in an off vertical plane, it is awkward for most to do it when casting vertically. Joan Wulff is an exception. As a lithe former dancer, she can do it with utmost grace and ease ... sheer poetry in motion. I can't come close.
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