Task 18 Discussion 4

Walter & Group...

[GH] From Ckling Ling :

Hi Gordy,

Great discussion, and learning a lot especially with regard to teaching.

In my limited understanding, the task ask for parallel loops in the vertical and horizontal rod plane(see expectation ). Using the ground as a baseline would then mean casting horizontally one could never have parallel loops which is not how the expectation is stated. It would seem that in a vertical rod plane, fly and rod legs are vertical in plane with rod plane. Casting at 45 degree off vertical , the loops can be parallel if they are in plane with rod plane. Casting horizontally at 90 degree, if the fly to rod leg plane is at 90 degree same as rod plane, would this not be parallel loops?

My teaching is to ask the student to cast over the rod tip and maintain the same casting plane for both back and forward cast, to get reasonably parallel loops in all casting planes. I stand to learn.

Cheers

Ling

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[GH] Ling,

Read the Task 18 wording carefully.

"Expectations : The explanation and demonstration should include the two common causes for loops with non-parallel legs in the vertical plane and the most common cause for loop legs being out of parallel in the horizontal plane."

It does NOT say vertical rod plane.

It does not mean that the caster is casting first in the vertical casting (rod) plane and then in the horizontal casting plane !

Taking that wording literally, I interpret it to mean that the candidate could make the demonstrations while casting in a vertical or off-vertical casting plane (rod plane). Maintaining that plane, he can demonstrate parallel loop legs and non-parallel loop legs as viewed from the side. This would actually be judgement of loop alignment in the vertical plane by virtue of one loop leg being above the other (or almost above)

As an example, let's assume that he is casting loops which are parallel in that vertical plane.

While still casting in the vertical casting plane, these loop legs which have been seen to be parallel when seen from the side, may also be parallel or not when viewed from behind or in front. When seen from this viewpoint, they might then be noted to be out of parallel by one loop leg being out to one side of the other at an angle. When that is the case, the loop legs are not in parallel when judged in the horizontal plane.

Let's also assume that with this same cast, his loop legs are not parallel to one another when viewed from behind (horizontal plane)

We, now, place observer #1 out to the side of this caster while observer #2 is placed well behind the caster. With this set up, the caster makes the same cast as described, above.

Observer #1 reports that the loop legs are in parallel in the vertical plane. At the same time, Observer #2 reports that the loop legs are out of parallel in the horizontal plane by virtue of side-to-side deviation of one loop leg with respect to the other.

Your comment, "My teaching is to ask the student to cast over the rod tip and maintain the same casting plane for both back and forward cast, to get reasonably parallel loops in all casting planes." is a good one. Using the same casting plane for both forward and back casts is one of the ways of helping to yield parallel loop legs when combined with a reasonably straight line path of the rod tip for most of the casting stroke".

In the real World of fly casting, it gets more complicated than that as we consider the observation that most casters don't really have exactly the same casting plane for their back casts and forward casts. With elliptical casts, they are never the same.

These are some of the reasons that we almost never really see perfectly parallel loop legs even with "classic" straight line overhead casting.

Gordy

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[GH] From Rick Brown :

Gordy,

One other way to produce out of parallel loops is to twist your body in an effort to watch your back cast.

I can also think of another advantage of out of parallel loops. When casting a weighted tandem rig non parallel loops help to prevent tangles and to keep the flys from crashing into the rod tip.

Rick

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[GH] Yes. Even with non-weighted flies, we really can't have a perfectly straight line path of the rod tip throughout the entire stroke or we'd have a collision with the rod.

It has been pointed out to me that environmental conditions such as wind can cause loop legs to become out of parallel.

Even static conditions such as gravity will cause loop legs to be out of parallel when large amounts of line are carried for very long casts.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[GH] I knew I could count on Ally Gowans to help with understandable diagrams !

Please note his attachments. These diagrams are better than hundreds of my words. :

Hi Gordy,

I recall an earlier discussion about “parallel loops” and I think that Bruce Richards contributed his thoughts (particularly for out of parallel 2 and 3) and I drew the attached sketches in an effort to make the matter clearer in recognition of the difficulty that examiners might have in discerning right from wrong. With sketch 3 Bruce thought that I had drawn it incorrectly but actually I took a series of high speed pictures before producing this sketch and the line shapes are correct!

There are of course countless ways to make out of parallel loops!

Absolutely parallel loops are impossible due to gravity alone and even if they were possible we would not be able to assess that exactly throughout the flies travel so what we are talking about here is casting that is “practically perfect” with loops that are apparently parallel and not loops that are exactly parallel in 3D.

I hope that these sketches are useful to candidates and examiners alike.

Best regards,

Ally Gowans

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[GH] Ally,

Many thanks !

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~