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Walter & Group...
[GH] From Mark Surtees :
Hi Gordy
“Specifically demonstrate: (1) Insufficient rod arc with no creep; (2) Insufficient rod arc, due to creep;”
On its own, insufficient rod arc won’t cause a tailing loop, it only causes the fly leg to fall below the rod leg, that is, it will only cross the rod leg once.
To demonstrate a tailing loop with either (1) or (2) I personally have to add an inappropriate application of power, this makes the tip dip suddenly into a concave path and causes a transverse wave to form and I get my tail.
Basically, no power spike, no tail.
Mark
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[GH] Mark,
RIGHT !!!!
You have spoken to the heart of a problem.
That is what I meant in my comment that when casting with too small a casting arc for the amount of line carried, in order to make the cast by keeping the line aloft the caster is forced to use "inappropriate application of power" .... else the cast collapses. This results in a true tail. In line with what Gary Eaton said, a concave rod tip path is formed.
In the past, we have had unresolved disagreements on this point. Some continue to insist that the tail is the result of insufficient casting arc alone.
Part of the argument may lie in the thought that an "almost tail" made as the fly leg crosses the rod leg only once is a tailing loop.
THAT depends on how we define a tailing loop.... a formal definition for which we do not have.
Now this becomes very important as our Testing Committees make the decision as to whether the "almost tail" with a one time crossover or even a "tendency to crossover" or "tendency to tail" is to be accepted :
1. As a bone fide demonstration of a tailing loop for Task 19.
2. As reason for failure on the basis of forming a tailing loop on most of the other tasks.
Phil Gay once pointed out that almost all tailing loops start with some form of inappropriate application of power. I see the relatively small casting arc as one of them. This is true no matter the reason for the diminished casting arc including creep.
I like the term, "POWER SPIKE" because it uses plain language to describe a burst of acceleration which cannot be maintained, leading to an inescapable dip and return of the rod tip.
Gordy
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[GH] Another point from Mark Surtees :
Hi Gordy
Just as an aside, if you do this in a perfect plane the fly leg piles up on the rod tip…this is definitely a bad thing but it isn’t, strictly speaking, a tail. It doesn’t happen often in my case, perfect planes are not one of my strong points…. J
Mark
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[GH] Mark,
Again, I agree. It has been many years, but I recall clearly that this was the first question Bill Gammel asked me on my Master orals. He put it this way : " What would happen if you made a cast with an absolutely perfect straight line path of the rod tip ? " My first thought was, "tail".... but my answer was, "The line would strike the fly rod".
Gordy
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[GH] From Rick Brown,
Gordy, I am sticking my neck out here and risk beheading. But at least, I will learn something.
If you mark an A and a B a few inches apart on a sheet of paper and then join them with a convex line and then join them with a concave line, you will get something that looks more or less like a football.
I have tried many times to make a tailing loop by casting a pure concave path of the tip. I can't do it. What I get is simply a reverse-convex path or you could look at it as upside-down. It seems to me that the tip has to kick over somewhere around loop formation. This pulls the rod leg down and sends a wave down the line. With a straight line path this only opens the loop up but combined with a concave path, a tail occurs.
Rick
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[GH] Rick,
I think it would be rare for a caster to be able to purposely make the rod tip travel in a concave path by means other than those we have discussed.
Just making the rod tip dip down won't form a tail. That downward dip must be followed by an upward movement which results in the line wave.
It can get a lot more complicated than that as we go deeper into theories which include things like kick-back, etc.
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