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Walter & Group....
From Jim Chestnut :-
Hi Gordy,
I have attached a word document of the text below as I have highlighted
portions of the quote in red.
Jim
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[GH] Jim,
I converted your Word .Doc attachment to a PDF and included it.
Re. the comments on wide loop back casts:
For most efficient straight line overhead casting, I look at the back cast as the set up for a good forward cast. When the back cast loop is wide, this generally will act as slack which must be taken up before loading of the rod on the following forward cast can occur. However, there are exceptions as when the caster is trying to take advantage of a high wind from in front to "kite" his back cast ... or when performing an elliptical cast with a constant tension D-loop.
As you did, I couldn't really come to terms with Server's statement on the video of Lefty, "where it looks like he starts his forward cast while the end of the line traveling back is just above his head."
On that issue, my thoughts are these -
- I'd need to see that video in order to confirm or take issue with it.
- Server is only saying that it appears that way to him.
- I agree that without seeing the entire video, we cannot know what Lefty may have been demonstrating. (Suppose, for example, that he was demonstrating a fault and then this segment of it was taken out of context.) You have correctly pointed out that we have no way of knowing Lefty's intent.
- As you did, I would take issue with the use of this as "evidence". I don't know if Server really intended to do that.
- Knowing Server as I do, I cannot imagine that we are being "conned". He is known for saying exactly what he thinks as a scientist.
Gordy
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>From Peter Lami,
Gordy,
Fascinating view points from Bruce Richards, Grunde Løvoll, Server Sadik and Peter Lami regarding rotation during the stopping sequence, or rod unload.
From Bruce Richards,
Hi Gordy, just a couple comments.
First, Noel and I examined one cast and showed that, for that cast, rod bend accounted for about 50% of tip speed. In other casts it could be much less, or possibly much more, depending on many variables. Some thought we were applying that 50% figure to all casts. We did not do an extensive study, just responded to a nagging question about how much tip speed might be due to rod bend.
Also, there will always be some rod rotation during unload, we cannot prevent that, we aren't strong enough, or fast enough to stop the rod dead. However, the less rotation there is during unload (stop) the tighter the loop will be. Less rotation during unload is a "hard stop", and the rod won't do that by itself. We can very accurately measure the rate of deceleration with the CA and very clearly show dramatic differences when comparing average casters with experts.
Bruce
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From Peter Lami
Grunde Løvoll Ph.D, has taught us "the stop", as a whole, does not happen at a single moment in the casting stroke. The stopping sequence, or rod unload, begins between Peak Load (maximum bend in the rod) and Rod Straight Position (RSP). He further stated, "I agree 100% with [Server] Sadik Ph.D that continued rotation during rod unload is essential to good fly casting."
I submit to the Master Study Group that we should re-write Gammel's 4th Essential Rule. Here's the new rule. "The proper application of power is a constant acceleration with a delayed rotation during the "stopping sequence", sometimes called rod unload."
How can we resolve this seemingly conflict of ideas about rotation during rod unload
Peter
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[GH] Peter,
When I note glaring differences of opinion between experts I first consider those very differences.... THEN, I look for their similarities. Much of the time I come to the conclusion that they are really saying the same thing but using different words OR they are embracing different concepts.
I've resolved it this way :
1. All are in agreement that there is no "Brick Wall Stop" (STOP which can be defined as immediate total cessation of motion.
2. All agree that the "stop" occurs over a period of time which will vary with different casts and different casters. (I like your term, "stop sequence".)
3. All agree that rotation must continue to take place during rod unloading. (The simple fact of life is that it is always there.)
To me, the apparent differences are really matters of intent.
a. Server leaves us with the impression that the caster intends to rotate after peak rod load.
b. Bruce gives the impression that the caster is trying to prevent it, but can't.
c. Grunde feels that this rotation is an essential.
I see these differences as moot. Why ?
The rotation during rod unloading is going to occur anyway whether the caster intends for it to happen or not.
Human physiology is such that during the fraction of a second between peak rod load and RSP (Rod Straight Position) the average caster cannot exercise his choice to a significant degree.
Consistent with Bruce's concept is the likelihood that our very best casters can come close to minimizing this rotation sufficiently to help yield tighter loops.
Continued gross rotation after loop formation (thus exaggerating counterflex) can result in larger loops by "tearing open" a newly formed small loop. That may be intended or not. When not intended, it can be seen as a fault if it thwarts the objective of forming a tight loop for greater distance. When intended, it is a good way of making a controlled wide loop for casting a weighted fly because it forms a wide loop with the fly leg remaining fairly straight and the rod leg lowered.
(What we do during the cast primarily affects the fly leg of the loop. What we do after the cast affects mainly affects the rod leg.)
Gordy
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Attachment:
Hi Gordy-1.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document