Walter & Group...
Question on MASS PROFILE from Bob Garber :
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Just to catch up with the conversation, I see mass profile mentioned frequently. Would you help me with the definition of mass profile? I'm trying figure out if we are talking about weight, mass or something else? Years ago I spent a lot of time in class on these items. Bob |
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Bob,
In common use, the work MASS means weight. Scientifically, however, mass is the amount of matter in a body. More accurately, the quantity of matter as determined by its weight. Physicists also determine it by its relation to Newton's second law of motion .... but that can get very complicated.*
PROFILE refers to the shape or outline of an object ... such as the shape of a fly line. This refers to the distribution of whatever material the fly line is constucted .... light or heavy.
I see the term MASS PROFILE as the distribution of heavy matter or weight within the shape or PROFILE of the fly line or leader.
Al Buhr pointed out an example such as this with respect to fly lines :
One WF6F fly line has a gradual taper for its first 30'. Another WF6F line is made for casting in wind. The taper of its first 30' is very different, because it is designed with more weight in its forward portion.
BOTH WEIGH EXACTLY THE SAME. The distribution of weight is differrent ...... SO :
THEY HAVE DIFFERENT MASS PROFILES.
Gordy
*WEBSTERS UNABRIDGED DICTIONARY : Mass. Physics. The sum of the forces acting on a body is equal to the product of the mass of the body and the acceleration produced by the forces with motion in the direction of the resultant of the forces. Newton's second law of motion.
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FUNDAMENTALS of LEADER DESIGN
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Fascinating to see the very different ways of looking at this subject !
As you read these answers, think : Which one makes the most sense to me ?
For you Master candidates : Which one would you choose if asked this question on an oral exam ?
Gordy
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Let's start with Craig Buckbee's SHORT ANSWER :
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From Jim Bass :
Gordy;
Fundamental to me means the basic concept of an item. Fundamentals of design for a leader could be only a way to transfer the energy from the line to the fly and could be a piece of string if the density is correct. We want a tapered leader which will not only transfer energy but also land the fly on target with the presentation we ask.
For our purpose
a fundamental leader consists of a method of attaching it to the line, a butt
section the transition section and a tippet. This is about fundamental as I can
get. There are many more things about a leader including material, size of
the material, length over all and the length of all sections. Yet a fundamental
leader is a way to attach the fly to the line.
Thanks
Jim
From Gary Davison :
Material Fundamental
Materials being used will depend on the fish, the conditions and the fly being presented. Mono, to Breaded, to Wire. They all have their place. It is knowing when and where to use all this in the line up that really counts. I'll be the first one to tell you I am still trying to learn this part!!!! Making your own leaders is an art form!
This sport is based on tapering transitions from the cork section of the fly rod to the fly. I have keyed in on the basic fundamentals provided by Bruce Richards in Modern Fly Lines regarding taper designs and energy dissipation. Leaders included!
All the best
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Mark Roberts comes in with his description :
Hi Gordy
I have played about with many types of tapered leader and non tapered for dry fly fishing for wild brown trout as well as others for up stream nymph fishing.
I believe that the first consideration for all leaders is what do you the angler wish the leader to do. This is often the question that is un answered.
For dry fly what I want is a tapered leader that allows the presentation of a fly to the target. This will often require the leader to have some form of slack in it depending on the current and seams that we want to present the fly into or probably across.
I want the slack there to be controlled and not just be made by the use of aerial mends, specific casts or a combination of casts but to be assisted by the actual make up of the leader itself.
For this my basic principle is to have the butt measuring at 70 percent of the line end. This will ensure a good transfer and continued transfer of energy from the fly line down through the leader.
Another basic is to have the taper over at least three parts so to start with I would tie the leader with three lengths of line each decreasing by 30 percent in diameter. This requirement then may well require further lengths of line at differing lengths to be completed by a tippet the diameter to match what you are actually casting as it still has to carry the fly.
I look for a leader of at least 12 feet for a 9 foot rod usually a 5 or 4 weight and will increase this depending on the conditions that prevail. i.e. the pattern that will match what the fish are feeding upon. The wind conditions including direction that prevail and the type of water I am fishing. (is it riffled or a slow glide etc)
The French Nymphing technique is loosely based on the prevailing conditions of clear low water with spooky trout. This is where a very long tapered leader is used up to 10 metres with an in line indicator.
A level leader has its place as well as it helps in a slack line presentation with the fly as if over powered it bounces back or fails to unfurl completely and drops a number of slack mends at the tip.
I like to use softer copolymer for the later part of the taper and stiffer at the butt (but not too stiff) and at times with very difficult educated fish I may well have a tippet of fluorocarbon just so the fly is sat in the surface or on it alone and tempting.
As a side issue the rod has to match the
tippet strength so if you are fishing a size 26 midge on a fine 9x tippet you do
not want a strong tip actioned rod.
These thoughts may not answer the original question but they may well stimulate discussion and you may find them of interest.
best wishes
Mark
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From Bob Garber :
The below are items on
leader design I received in the past. I don?t recall the source or author
so I can?t give credit. Comments?
Leader Design
Principles:
-
A taper that is too
short or stiff will slap the fly over during the
presentation
-
A taper that is too
long or supple may hinge or not turn over at all.
-
A leader that turns
over nicely on a short cast may be too supple to turn over on a long
cast
-
-
When tying your own
leaders a decrease of
-
Smaller diameter or
softer materials are less efficient at energy transfer than larger diameter or
stiffer materials.
-
The shorter the leader
section the more casting energy is carried forward.
-
More casting speed is
required for long and light leaders.
-
Slow casters should use
short tapers; fast casters should use longer
tapers.
-
The leader butt section
should be 2/3 the size of the end of the fly line
- Butt section of the leader should match the approximate stiffness of the fly line.
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Shaun Ash's LONG ANSWER :
Ok any leader has to provide as near as possible an invisible
connection to the fly, it should aid in presentation and allow the fly
to behave as required,it also has to to two important but different
things.
1 transfer casting energy along its lenght to turn over and present the fly
2 dissipate energy to help with a soft but deliberate presentation.
size and overall lenght dictates this as does taper, tippet and fly
type and size.
For sinking lines in windy conditions I am casting a short lenght of
line so I need a shorter leader that turns over rapidly.
In this situation i can get away with a splashy presentation so a
shorter leader is ok and it carries more casting energy forward to the
fly which helps keep it on target
In other situations wind, and general fishing conditions need to be
accounted for such as depth, species, water clarity and water temp
also any cover and the species use of it and then the local food
items.
Generally.
So the butt section would be made of normal mono, connected to the fly line
with a straight glue in, ( Dave whitlock method)
I while i don't think a factory loop or whipped loop is a big drag
adding the extra thickness and mass could change the turn over.
I then start to add in the required taper as a two stage mid section
I have use a three stage taper for longer leaders 12ft etc or when I
need softer presentation, the the mid sections are made
of co-polymer.
With a tippet of fluorocarbon this has better abrasions resistance and
sinks which removes its shadow from the surface I also degrease it.
The butt section is looped using a small perfection loop all other
knots are albrights when pretied surgeons on the water.
rough formula would be for a 6# butt section 50lb mono that was not
to stiff to mid section 40lb and 25lb to a tippet 16lb to 12lb about 8
inch's long. I use the butt section as a dampener.
On a weight forward floating line the tippet would be around 12inchs long.
for trout I tend to use 9.5ft leaders but would use my rod lenght ar a
guide, 6# would start with a lighter butt section of 30lb to 40lb
still a two stage butt section but with an 18inch to 20 inch tippet to
add with slack the tippet would be 4x or 5x.
Line choice is Rio, maxima, and frog hair.
Factory taper leaders have a couple of advantages being smooth ie no
tags from knots they dont pick up weed and other floating rubbish, the
taper design is also designed to match the lenght and strenght of the
leader.
Hand tied leaders the tags can be covered with head cement to stop the
snagging, the taper can be designed or altered to suit different flys
or conditions, I tend to prefer a rapid taper and long tippet maybe
so
I can changes fly a few times before re tying a tippet but the longer
tippet does help else where,more later.
this profile is not one I have found in store brought leaders.
Plus I believe that for short slow cast we use a short leader or for
longer cast we need a longer leader, to turn over a long leader I need
more line speed I also need more line speed to get the longer cast so
that energy has to be used up.
less line speed for the short cast as less fly line is used so we need
a shorter leader.
both need to turn over and present the fly and both need to dissipate
some energy to help make a good presentation.
As it is not possible to change your leader with each fishing
situation on a given day we need a general leader which to me has a
rapid taper for good turn over even at shorter casting lenghts but has
enough lenght to go long this is covered by a long tippet.
This long tippet adds with slack presentations but with a rapid
tapered leader I can still put the fly down fast when its windy.
To soft or to long will hinge back on its self as the casts energy
runs out, but a leader that is to short or stiff will snap the fly
over or hit the wall a fold up.
Shaun
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