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    Walter & Group...

    Al Buhr comments on one of my "tips" from our last message.  Some truths emerge in this string of replies.  G :-

    Gordy?s tips:

    ?Switching from a floating to an intermediate line makes casting in high winds easier anyway, because the  mass per diameter of the line is higher.  That means that the leading edge of your loop presents less resistance to the wind.?

     

    Or is it:

    The higher density line is more efficient in transferring energy generated during the cast. One would have a quicker cast, with or without wind, if using an intermediate line; the smaller diameter, a consequence of higher density, perhaps is minor to greater ability to flow energy.

     

    When one casts a WF line, equal in size and profile, as the density increases, the line responds more distinctly and may give a false impression of a more heavy ?feel?

    Example: Why does the type 6 sink WF 7 ?feel? heavier than the floating WF7?

     

    A little farm math:

    A hammer strikes a wood board with a thud, and then strikes a steel plate with a sharp cracking ring. The level of tone reflects each density, and its ability to transfer energy; one floats, the other sinks.

     

    Could not resist,,,

    Al

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    Al...

     

    Good call !!!!

     

    The smaller diameter will present less air/wind resistance, this factor, however, is by far the LESS important of the two.  Gets back to the importance of mass profile.

     

    It does become somewhat more important, however, as one casts directly into a wind of much greater velocity.  Taken to the absolute end, as wind velocity greatly increases, we can get to the point where no matter the density of the line the caster simply cannot overcome the wind.

     

    In our real World of fly casting, however, you are correct that the line density is the most important factor.  I'm remiss in not having pointed that out.

     

    Theoretically, If we were casting while standing on the moon (no atmosphere at all), the denser line would indeed be expected to cast more efficiently because (as you point out) there is more efficient transfer of energy when using the denser line.

     

    This is also the answer to your example of why a type 6 sink WF 7 S line will give the sensation to the caster that it is heavier than the WF 7 F line.  The first 30 feet of each line has the same weight..... but the WF 7S is denser.  (Higher specific gravity.)

     

    I love your "farm math" !    However, one could challenge that, too .  Suppose, for example, we took that  hammer and struck the steel plate .... the cracking ring ensues.  NOW :   We take that same hammer and strike a lead plate.  We are back to the thud despite the fact that the lead is denser than the steel .

     

    Thanks for pointing all this out to us.

     

    I love this stuff !!!

     

    Gordy

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    Gordy, Yes lead can appear in a soft state. Tungsten is greater in density, is very hard, if struck with a hammer it will shatter.

     

    Agreed the diameter is a factor in cutting through wind, however mass profile (dictating the loop unroll) and density (dictating energy transfer) may have greater importance. ?Smaller is better? contradicts fly line shapes recommended for winding conditions; often these profiles have large tip diameters, with a large diameter section forward in the head/body (WF). These line shapes are about lots of mass forward to drive a shorter cast to the windy target.

     

    To some degree, this is the same as a sinking line, each is a line traveling though a resistance; one air, the other water.

     

    Another subject:

    Terms and Definitions:

    Interesting the different replies and opinions to simple definitions,,, after there has been discussions. This may imply the discussed wording is not simple or visual in specific word choice. Or possible the current word use is too focused on one perceived opinion, based on rotation. In any scenario, all things are open to interpretation, yet debated is primary fundamentals.

     

    Al

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    Al.....
     
    Yes, I hadn't considered the way some of those "wind lines" are tapered.  My assumption was predicated on lines of the same design.
     
    Great to have someone with your many years of line design experience aboard !  I sure appreciate that.
     
    You raise a valid point on Terms and Definitions !  This is one reason I oft use the wording, "working definition" when describing some of these things.  (Works for me in context, but not for everything for all ).
     
    Gordy