Answer critique

Walter & Group...

Mark Milkovitch's answer sheet hopefully attached to this one.    G.

Message from Jim Valle :

Gordy and Group,

 

Some great answers and information in the responses.

 

I like to start new casters this way also ? for me? mostly to get them casting very quickly! Which is what they came to do.

Absolutely love the word picture..from Tony Loader ? ?Wet the Tip?..!

 

I would add one refinement for instructors  

I Teach the lift from the ?wet tip? to the backcast as? ?lift horizontally all the way to the nail knot before starting the backcast? (from Lefty)

Puts their focus on the line, prevents tendency to wrist the pick up, eliminates large loops?

This is the time to prevent early circular motion in the pick up ?.if they apply the loading move when the rod tip is closer to the SLP their first casts will be great. That gets the lesson off on a positive note. Important they recognize the blending of the pick up and backcast but also as two somewhat distinct parts. They will ?Feel the Cast? sooner.

 

Hope that helps,

Jim V

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Jim....   Tony Loader got many good comments on that one I couldn't resist highlighting it !       G.

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Comment by Raf Mascaro :

Hi Gordy,

most probably I missed one question:

How many ways to picking-up and laying dwon we know/use ?

Best Regards
Raf

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Raf,

You didn't miss it.  I didn't ask it.  Good question, though.     G.

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 Bob Stouffer's answer sheet, below.  One reason I chose it is to show that Mark Surtees is not alone in chosing not to teach the Pick up & Lay down (PULD) as the first task when teaching beginners (See his answer to question # 4.)  ...... Although he does use it later for these students.  

Answers from Bob Stouffer:

 

1.)  Briefly descibe this maneuver in your own words.
Line on surface, relatively straight, contact with fly, rod tip on surface, straight line path of thumbnail accelerating to a vertical STOP at ear,  PAUSE (relax hand), straight line path of the thumbnail accelerating to a high STOP (relax hand) PAUSE while loop unrolls, follow line to water with rod tip.

 

2.)  Do you use this technique when teaching new casters ?  Yes

 

3.)  Why do you think it is important enough to use for new casters ?  It is the basic cast in fly fishing and the elaborated instruction will include all five of the Gammel's essentials.

 

4.)  If you do NOT use it, tell us your reason (s).  I do not use the PULD as the initial cast for begining student, I use the backcast (rotate 180 - walk backwards), ad nauseum.

 

5.)  Would you ever use it when teaching intermediate or advance casting students ?  List examples, if so.
Yes.  Examples include: 
Self evaluation of stroke by observing line layout (tracking and linespeed faults) in a repeatable cast.
Timing improvement (feeling the rod load and unload)
Understanding and using the variables (which I define as acceleration and arc while maintaining constant stroke length)
Varying loop size and shape
Varying linespeed and length of line outside the rod tip
Others

 

6.)  What do you see as the most common fault when students do the pick-up and lay down ? Forget to stop on the back-cast.

 

7.)  How do you correct this ?  Hands-on

 

8.)  What do you find as the second most common fault ?  Too much energy at the beginning of each stroke (too fast)

 

9.)  How do you correct this one ?  Listen to the rod

 

10.) Can you think of other faults likely to appear ?  List them.
Tracking, hand-path, non-loops, creep, acceleration faults (how and how much), arc faults, stance, posture, facial _expression_, etc.

 

11.)  Where do you prefer your student's rod tip to be at the start of the pick-up and lay down maneuver ?  low (touching)

 

12.)  Why ?  To reduce the possibility of creating slack.

 

13.)  Where in the fly casting literature can you find a detailed description of the pick-up & lay down cast ?  One place is Jason Borger's Nature of Fly Casting (a modular approach).

 

14.)  Ally Gowans has stated that the caster must get the line ORGANIZED before making a pickup.  What do you think he means by this ?  The line wants to feel tension between the fly and the line hand (or finger of the casting hand)

 

15.) Lefty Kreh writes that there is something the caster must do prior to making the actual pickup.  What is that ?  Lift

 

16.)  Given the choice, would you prefer to teach this maneuver to your students on grass, in a gymnasium (with no wind) or on water ?  Grass.

 

17.)  Why ?  It is easier to "organize" the line - both for the student and the instructor who may have to walk forward and pull the fly and line into position.

 

18.)  You are teaching this cast with a 10 mile per hour wind.  What do you feel is the best way to position you student with respect to this breeze ?  Wind on line-hand cheek

 

19.)  Describe the ideal line plane (trajectory / launch angle) for this task.  High in the back-cast, horizontal in the front cast.

 

20.)  Why ?  To institute the Pause on the back-cast (gives the student time to pause).

 

 

Gordy

 

 

 

 

From: Mark Milkovich [mark@xxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 10:53 PM
To: 'Gordon Hill'
Subject: Pick Up Lay Down Quiz

Gordy, here are my answers to the quiz.  Thanks, Mark

Here are 20 questions on the technique of PICK-UP & LAY DOWN…

1.)    Briefly describe this maneuver in your own words.

Casting 20’-30’

·         Rod tip lift (a separate but connected motion for loner casts only) then sling back to a thumb vertical stop at the temple.

·         Pause

·         Sling forward to a stop with hand at chin level.

 

2.)  Do you use this technique when teaching new casters? 

Yes with the three steps called out to “Up…Stop…Cast”. The idea for the callouts is from a Loop article by J. Kevin Berry, Spring, 1998.

 

3.)  Why do you think it is important enough to use for new casters?

            It’s a simple, fast way to get them casting initially.

 

4.)  If you do NOT use it, tell us your reason (s).

 

5.)  Would you ever use it when teaching intermediate or advance casting students?  List examples, if so.

To make a student’s casting more vertical

 

6.)  What do you see as the most common fault when students do the pick-up and lay down?

                Wide loops. 

 

7.)  How do you correct this?

Casting thumb must remain visible in peripheral vision on backcast without turning head to the side. If the verbal instruction isn’t sufficient, a jointly made cast will make the idea clear.  

 

8.)  What do you find as the second most common fault?

            Tailing loops. 

 

9.)  How do you correct this one?

Most often by having the student make a series of casts each with half the power of the previous one until the tail disappears.  

 

10.) Can you think of other faults likely to appear?  List them.

 Failure to pause

 

11.)  Where do you prefer your student's rod tip to be at the start of the pick-up and lay down maneuver?

 At water or ground level if there is much length to the cast.

12.)  Why?

To eliminate slack 

13.)  Where in the fly casting literature can you find a detailed description of the pick-up & lay down cast?

Mel Krieger’s The Essence of Fly Casting

 

14.)  Ally Gowans has stated that the caster must get the line ORGANIZED before making a pickup.  What do you think he means by this?

            Don’t know but he could be referring to putting the line under tension..

 

15.) Lefty Kreh writes that there is something the caster must do prior to making the actual pickup.  What is that?

Get the end of the fly line moving. 

 

16.)  Given the choice, would you prefer to teach this maneuver to your students on grass, in a gymnasium (with no wind) or on water?

            Water

 

17.)  Why?

The water’s resistance makes a difference and the student when actually fishing will need to understand how to smoothly deal with it. 

 

18.)  You are teaching this cast with a 10 mile per hour wind.  What do you feel is the best way to position you student with respect to this breeze?

For a first time caster, with the wind coming from the off shoulder side. For intermediate or better casters this is a great opportunity to work and practice at all angles to the breeze.

19.)  Describe the ideal line plane (trajectory / launch angle) for this task.

 Down into the wind and up with the wind.

20.)  Why?

When casting into the wind to prevent the fly from being blown off target while taking advantage of the wind’s ability to straighten the line when casting with it.