Walter & Group...
Craig Buckbee sends a message about the angle of the fly rod while fighting a fish :
gordy,
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Craig,
As soon as I had sent that detailed message, I regretted not having made that point more clear. Thanks for bringing it up.
The horizontal rod position while fighting a fish (as I know you are aware) should not be out to the side (except when finishing off a tarpon as you actually try to pull the fish in the direction opposite the way he's trying to go in shallow water near the skiff.)
I meant the more horizontal position of the rod while pointed at the fish . Not fully horizontal, but with the butt section at an angle of somewhere between 20 degrees and 40 degrees with repect to the surface of the water.
When near the end of the battle with a big tarpon, we've found it very effective to plunge the rod deep into the water to try to pull the fish down from near the surface. Sometimes this results in destabilizing the creature which helps to break its "spirit" for an earlier release. Most tarpon fishermen refer to this move as the "down-&-dirty". I agree with Floyd Franke that it was probably Stu Apte who came up with that maneuver and term. Floyd included a photo of me starting to plunge my rod deep in order to do that, in his book. *
FISH ON !.... by Floyd Franke, pp. 102, 103.
Gordy
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Guy Manning helps with this message complete with links to diagrams :
Lou
Bruno asks: What
is the relationship with pressure exerted by the fly rod held at different
angles (greater and less than 90 degrees) and line tension?
Here
are 4 pages from my Casting Instructors Workshop workbook where we talk about
this:
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n163/grhen/cast/Slide1.png
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n163/grhen/cast/Slide2.png
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n163/grhen/cast/Slide3.png
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n163/grhen/cast/Slide4.png
Realize
that the pounds of pressure figures are approximate for a lighter weight rod.
But the point gets made. If you want to turn a fish you need to get the tip down
to about 30 degrees for the best affect. Morsie once posted some photo on
another site where they measured the pulls using a 12 wt rod and a spring scale.
The figures changed due to the rod weight but the results of rod angle were the
same.
Guy
Manning
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Guy,
Thanks ! Makes it clear, and adds the concept of the fully horizontal rod for strip striking.
Gordy
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From Bill Keister :
Bill...
Interesting !
Re. Marinaro's recommendation to place the reel drag setting at "just under the breaking strength of the tippet" :
Tom White and I read that. We rigged up with a leader with an 8X tippet. On Tom's line tester (a very sophisticated expensive model) we tested that tippet at 1.4 lbs breaking strength. We then set the drag at 1 lb. and that tippet broke every time. We then set the drag at 0.5 lbs. and the tippet still broke every time. This with the rod pointed exactly at the fly thus minimizing if not eliminating friction between the line and the guides.
We even tried it by using knots such as the Bimini twist which tested at almost 95% break strength. I doubt Vincent Marinaro knew or used such knots for trout fishing.
When big game fly fishing, even when using a 20 lb. tippet, I'll set the initial drag as Lefty does with my lips. That turns out to be a bit less than 2 lbs. Some of our tarpon guides will set the drag at as much as 4 lbs. Even that is only 1/5th the tippet breaking strength.
One of the problems we encountered was the start-up inertia of the reel spool/drag system. Sometimes unforgiving.
Placing a limber fly rod in the vertical position will go a long way to protecting the leader tippet for reasons that we've already discussed. To this may be added the additional virtue imparted by that very tip flexibility. This effectively blunts the "shock effect" of sudden application of force by the fish.
(We all know that tippet material will break with less force if that force is rapidly applied ...... leading to the dictum: "What breaks the tippet is the jerk at the end of the line ".)
Gordy
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YELLOWSTONE
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From Gary Davison on YELLOWSTONE :
|
Gordy,
Being as we have a National Conclave coming up this Aug. In
Yellowstone. I would like to ask the group to share what they
know about Yellowstone. The rules and regulation for fly fishing in
Yellowstone park areas. What general information should we be aware
of about the park areas.
Jim Bass and Company had a little quiz last week addressing
Yellowstone which was a good beginning to the event. Some addressed
the use of lead to get down deep, but lead slip shots is not allowed
in Yellowstone. Those in the group that have
visited this grand natural wonder, it would be great to hear their
experiences and review the rules and regulation for fishing in this
pristine area.
Jim and I are sending the same request to Al's Study Group to
also review and advise. Between the two groups we should have some
very informative information about Yellowstone. Any additional
information or advise by the group when fishing this area would be great
for members of both groups.
I understand Yellowstone is like Las Vegas. What happens in
Yellowstone stays in Yellowstone! Point being any natural items in
Yellowstone must remain in Yellowstone. Example for me was I
happened onto a Moose Antler in the Falls River in Souther
Yellowstone. I was told by my brother Lee that it is
not permitted to take natural object such as this out of
Yellowstone. They must remain as you found them. Or you
will suffer a fine if caught removing items such as this from the
park. Information like this is good to know.
All the best Gary Davison
Gulf
Coast Spey |
Gordy, on this
week's quiz I ask for three things that change the loop size. After more
consideration I am not sure there are three things. I think one thing can
change the loop but is affected by many different things. Lefty says in his book
"Presenting the Fly" Page 139, Rule #4, the distance the rod tip speeds up and
stops at the end of a cast, determines the size of the loop.
Jim
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Jim...
Lefty and I have discussed this in the past.
Many took issue with that statement. I don't.
My opinion is that, basically, Lefty is correct.
why ?
When the caster "speeds-up-and-stops" over a short distance, his rod tip usually goes through the Rod Straight Position (RSP) only a short distance below the oncoming fly line as loop formation begins. THAT MEANS THAT THE ROD TIP IS TRAVELING IN AN ALMOST STRAIGHT LINE PATH .....ERGO A SMALL LOOP.
When the caster "speeds-up-and stops" over a long distance, his rod tip usually goes through RSP a greater distance below the oncoming fly line. THAT MEANS THAT THE ROD TIP WAS TRAVELING IN A MORE CONVEX PATH ...... ERGO A WIDE LOOP.
By, "speed-up-and-stop" I think Lefty is taking the liberty of referring to the caster's movement; not that the rod tip actually stops, since the rod tip will go through RSP and continue on its way via counterflex. It then briefly stops prior to the following rebound.
Jim
Bass
