FLY ? / Rods / Greased Line

Walter & Group....

Mark Kreider asks an interesting question :

Gordy

I was musing over what a complete definition of a "fly" would be.  There must be a point in construction/materials where a fly is no longer a fly and enters lure territory.  I wonder if different world areas and types of fly fishing make some flies acceptable where in other places and types of fishing they are forbidden.  There also seems to be an in between category.  I recall that in the Knots book you kindly annotated for me, you drew a "fly" with a roe sac that said, "this one is for nerds".  Just curious.  Thought it might be a forum subject if it is not already delineated as different flies require different casting techniques.

Hope the fishing is good.
Mark

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

Mark.  Interesting question.

Re:  The Fly.  

 

There are so many variations on that theme that almost anything one can place on the end of a fly line and leader may be considered a "fly" as we consider the range from a # 28 midge all the way up to Mark Sedotti's 27" weighted fly and then things in between including bass poppers, "spoon flies", "crease flies", crab flies, heavy leaded Clousers, tube salmon flies, flesh flies, epoxy creations and egg patterns.  YES.... even natural insects impaled on a hook and dapped with a fly rod.  (Called a "beauquet" by anglers on Penn's Creek"

 

Some bill fishers used nylon strand "mop" flies with no hooks to catch sailfish on fly tackle.  This outrageous device is nothing more than hundreds of long strands of very fine colored nylon fastened to a shock tippet.  When the sailfish attacks it and strikes with his bill, the strands become enmeshed about the tip of the bill.  Tension then makes it act like a "Chinese finger trap" in that the harder the fish pulls, the tighter it gets.  (Outlawed for use in modern Billfish Fly tournaments.)

 

Perhaps we can look at the fly as belonging in the family of lures in that they are designed to "lure" the fish !???

 

A definition ? .... How about: 

 

FLY: ANY FISH ATTRACTING DEVICE PRESENTED BY AN UNROLLING FLY LINE LOOP FOR THE PURPOSE OF CATCHING THE QUARRY.

 

Or

 

FLY:  A FISHING LURE PRESENTED BY FLY CASTING.

 

The former covers the angler who catches a fish on a fly when hand casting as well as most of us who use conventional fly tackle.

 

Even this one is overshadowed by a loophole when one considers the tarpon fly fishers who have no intention of actually catching the fish.  These anglers use small soft wire barbless hooks.  They are only interested in the hookups and the jumps.  They then clamp down on the drag and allow the hook to pull free.

 

Sometimes called a "longline release"!

 

Old time purists who used nothing but "natural" materials for their fly tying craft would cringe.

 

Gordy

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

                                                                         FLY RODS

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

Lots I didn't know on the history of "ferruledom" from Lefty :

 

Gordy--

On one of your boards they said that Jim was working for the Feniwck company when he invented the ferrule.

Jim Green was one of my closest friends and one of the greatest tournament casters of his time. He told me that he developed the ferrule by inserting one rod portion into another. He thought it might have some practical applications and wanted to talk to someone who might be in the fly fishing "business."

The only person he knew was Phil Clock, who had a small shop making Sevenstrand braided wire. Phil also realized the potential. He and Jim went to Bainbridg Island where Don Green was making GRIZZLY FIBERGLASS rods--considered at the time to be on the cutting edge of modern fly rods.

Don agreed to design some rods around Jim's idea and thus Phil started FENWICK. Not long after that I began using them and Phil said I was responsible for many in the East and mid-West for buying Fenwicks. Jim Green--no relation to Don Green-- worked with Don at the Fenwick plant. Don said to me several times that Jim Green taught him to cast and he taught Jim how to make rods.

Orders came in so well that Don stopped making his Grizzly rods and went full time on Fenwicks. Phil Clock had a lawyer from his father's law firm write up the patent on Jim Green's idea. It was so badly written that soon after other rod companies began using it. Phil and Jim were great friends. Phil got some sort of very rapid cancer and died in a few months,. Unfortunately, for Jim Green, Phil had made no restitution for Jim's idea--although I think that was unintentional knowing them and their relationship.

All Jim green every got out of his ferrule concept was a job.

All The Best=   Lefty

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

From David Diaz on non metallic ferrules for bamboo fly rods :

 

G: Gordie,  for your info: Maca makes bamboo rods with a graphite ferrule that transforms them.   Check out his website.   You can believe all the significant things he says about hollow-built rods with graphite ferrules.   I cast the 8' 2+ in model, and it was outstanding.   It should should stir martinis and serve dinner for the 2K plus price tag. I haven't bought one--yet. But I feel it coming on.    And if you'd prefer a shorter one, I bet he'd build whatever you want.  With his ferrule you could fish for baby tarpon with a two-piece can rod.    Once or twice a year I go to Campeche to fish for little tarpon, and  the Beaverhead model that I cast keeps speaking to me.  

 

 

Try Googling

 

Beaverhead Rods by Wayne Maca

 

 

David D. Diaz

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

David...   Thanks.  I didn't know about that.   Having taken your advice, I placed one of the "Google" pages in an attachment.  This is a real departure from the past in the making of bamboo rods.  I didn't get to the price list .... suspect they are expensive.    G.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

                                                           GREASED LINE FISHING

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From Michael Jones :

 

Jim Valle cleared up the term 'greased line' for me in explaining how the origin came from greasing the silk line to achieve a mend; that is the breakthrough definition I was seeking;   thanks Jim!

Michael

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

From Ally Gowans :

 

Hi Gordy,

 Here is another rarity, my pal Jim has gotten confused with names! Skues is the person generally credited for introducing or popularising nymph fishing for trout and particularly for developing the upstream nymph which he first used on the Itchen, an English chalk stream.

 Jim was actually thinking about Arthur Wood of Glassel who was the tenant at Cairnton on the Aberdeenshire Dee and who is credited with inventing the greased line method of fishing for Atlantic salmon. Some time ago I studied Wood?s methods and wrote about his exploits. I have a presentation that I first delivered to a convention in Seattle organised by Wild Salmon and Steelhead magazine more than ten years ago and was amused to find that my friend Harry Lemire who lives near Seattle had made a pilgrimage to Cairnton to see the river and the artefacts left by Woods. I have since delivered the presentation to a number of clubs and I will bring it with me to Florida. Incidentally the ?floating broadside like a leaf? description by Donald Rudd (Jock Scott) is believed to have resulted from a misunderstanding. In practice Wood lead the fly across the stream using mends and the like to simulate a small creature that could not quite swim fast enough to overcome the current speed. Harry Lemire uses a lovely _expression_, instead of fishing his fly he ?swims his fly? and according to folklore at Cairnton that is exactly what Wood practiced.

Best regards,

Ally Gowans

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Ally....  Arthur Wood is credited for with inventing of the greased line method. * 

He did this in during the 1930's.  It was said to have revolutionalized salmon fishing.  Hugh Falkus' method which he named, "Two Way Fishing" seemed to me to be a modification of Wood's method in which the fly is swung in both directions.

According to Herd, this large, powerful man was known for using twelve foot long single handed fly rods.  The pendulum swung the other way when Lee Wulff started using very short rods of 7' length. Lee claimed to have caught a salmon by hand casting using no rod at all.  While that would seem to be quite a feat, the main accomplishment would have been the hand cast itself... for it is well known to be MUCH easier to land a fish on a handline than when using a rod. **   Joan Wulff wrote that he used even shorter rods down to 6' in length for his "Oval Casts" while salmon fishing. ***

Years ago, on the Restegouche while fishing with Charlie Stradella, I had the best salmon fishing imaginable while using an Orvis Graphite/Boron 7 wt. rod of 7' length. We stayed at his "Carter Hall" and fished the conflluence of the Kedgwick with the Little Main.  Charlie was past CEO of General Motors and did everything in a big way.  He inisisted upon using a heavy bamboo single handed rod 11' in length fitted with a huge custom Bogdan reel.

I did figure that someone would come up with the fact that the name, "Jock Scott" was a pen name used by Donald Rudd.

(As an aside ... some of you in the Group including Bob Andreae will remember that Captain Franklin Pickstock of Andros used only 300 lb. mono handlines and gloves to land huge groupers in the Tongue of the Ocean off the Berry Islands in the Bahamas. He captained my boat for years.  

 One evening, I did that off Mamma Rhoda Rock.  I hooked a mammouth Cubera snapper.  Having wound the line about my gloved hand, the fish pulled me a full 16' across the stern deck of my BIG DADDY.  I couldn't unwind the taught line and would  have been pulled overboard except for the fact that I was able to cleat that line down onto the port stern cleat !   That fish towed the anchored 50' boat back and forth.  Finally a huge shark ate all but the head.  That head was so large that when we placed in into an 80qt. cooler, we couldn't shut the lid ! )

Gordy

 

* THE FLY, by Andrew Herd, 2003, pp. 211-212.

**  THE ATLANTIC SALMON by Lee Wulff, 1983, p. 41.

***  Joan Wulff''s FLY CASTING TECHNIQUES, Joan Wulff, 1987, p. 132

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From Mark Surtees :

 

Re Greased Line Fishing.

 Slip of the pen Jim ?, I think as a technique it?s generally attributed to Arthur Woods.

 Skues was freaking out Halfordian Dry Fly only fanatics with subsurface patterns which apparently threatened the entire fabric of British society in the early part of the twentieth century, the first world war and the rise of bolshevism paled into insignificance compared to this J.  

 Mark Surtees

 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Mark....  Ahaah!  As with turns...    One good slip deserves another.   His name was Arthur Wood .... Not Woods.

 

G.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

 

 

 

 

Attachment: Beav_rods_page2.mht
Description: Binary data