Walter & Group....
Answers from Jim Bass. My comments in his answer text in red italics.
QUIZ
Here is something which came up recently
(Re. questions 1.) through 5.)
I've been coaching some CCI candidates and
have run across some problems that have recurred. These are described in
questions 7.) through 14.) .
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1.) Your "intermediate"student has
done pretty well. She has good loop control and timing while casting in
the 40 - 50 foot range using her own outfit. This is a medium action 9'
rod with a WF9F line.
She now starts to cast with the same
line and leader, but with an 8' medium action rod. She develops a series
of tailing loops.
Give two likely causes for
this.
a. Not enough stroke for the longer line out the tip of the rod. Yes. Her stroke length and rod arc didn't match the rod bend when she changed rod lengths. This also threw off her timing, yielding a second reason for the tails..... a spike of power during her stroke. G.
b.
Over powering
because of a perceived need to help the shorter rod do its work.
(True.... as noted above.
G.)
2.) What is your suggested correction for
fault a. ? Have the student increase her
stroke. Yes. We had her increase stroke
length and rod arc.
3.) Your correction for fault b.
? Understand the rod is designed to handle the
line and she needs a smooth acceleration of power to the stop. In this case, she did develop smoother acceleration once we had
helped her correct the stroke length and rod arc to match the rod
bend. G.
4.) She exhibits BOTH fault a. and fault b. with each cast. How do you handle that problem ? Fix the stroke length first then the power. Agree. It isn't usual to see both corrected at the same time as it happened in this instance. Best way to handle it is to avoid trying to correct more than one problem at a time. Start with the fault that you feel is most detrimental to the cast. G.
5.) After practicing for about 3
weeks with the shorter rod, she then goes back to the longer one. Now her
loops are big and she can't make the distance she had made with the shorter
rod.
Why ? The she has not readjusted her stroke because there
is less line out of the rod tip. Exactly
! She still needed to understand the concept that these adjustments
must be made in either direction.
G.
6.) Another student casts with good
tracking. There is practically no change of rod plane (casting plane)
between the back cast and the forward cast. He makes very high trajectory
back casts and follows with at attempt to make high trajectory forward casts as
well. He has a stroke length and rod arc whch are fine for the length of
the line carried and he is using smooth constant acceleration to a stop with
excellant application of power. His timing is very
good.
Tailing
loops result.
Why ? Because a the trajectory is less than 180o and the tip is traveling in a concave path. Yes. In this case the trajectory of the back cast and that of the forward cast form an angle of less than 180 degrees so the concavity is between strokes thus yielding a tailing loop. She would have gotten away with this if she had changed rod planes, however. G
7.) You are helping a CCI candidate prepare
for his exam. He is using a fast action 7 wt. Sage TCR fly rod. His
line is a WF 7F SA Expert Distance Line. The leader is 8' in length and
tapered. He does just fine with most of his tasks and easily
makes the required distance cast.
When he gets to the roll cast tasks, he has
a perfect set-up but then has trouble making tight loops which are below head
level.
a. What is his problem ? He is starting his cast too soon and increases his arc, thus a wider loop. He applied too much power too soon. That was part of his problem. Another problem existed in that he didn't use quite enough power to bend that super fast action TCR rod sufficiently which resulted in a convex rod tip path and a large loop. The rod tip path was also high and finished high enough that the loop was way above head height. G
b. How do you advise him ? Wait until the last possible to start the cast and apply the power with a flick. It wasn't so much the timing of the start of his cast as it was his application of power. His max acceleration occurred too early in the stroke. Once taught the principle of "no power 'til midnight" and that of smooth acceleration to a stop, he did well. His rotation was delayed a bit which helped result in a much tighter loop.
It was much easier to correct these faults by having him do so using a rod of the same length and and designation but with a more forgiving action. For this I used a 7 wt. Sage XD. Worked fine. G
8.) Another CCI candidate can't quite
make the 75' required distance cast. He is using lots of energy and has
fairly tight loops on both back cast and forward cast. The leader and end
of the fly line crumple into a poor layout with the fly behind the leader
connection.
a. What is the most likely reason for his problem ? Tracking on his back cast is hooking around him. That was one of his problems. From the side, the loops appeared to be fairly tight ..... but upon observing them from in front, it was easy to see the horizontal wide loops. The provided slack which had to be taken up before the presentation cast became effective. It also resulted in his perception that he needed more power for his forward presentation cast. The erratic application of power didn't produce a tail, but helped yield the crumpled layout. G.
b. Tell us your advice to him. Make a smooth application of power and correct the twist in his wrist on the back cast. Yes. One of the tricks I used was one I learned from Lefty. " Use no more power on your delivery cast than you did with your last false cast; speed up your haul ." Using the concept of the haul being thought of as the "accelerator" sometimes works well as it did here. G.
9.) This CCI candidate is having
trouble getting the fly close enough to a close target (20'). He does fine
with the 30' and 45' targets, but he keeps overcasting the close target.
His loops are good and his application of power appropriate. Tracking is
fine.
a. What is the most likely problem. Trajectory too flat. That was the problem. He needed a higher trajectory for his back cast to match the lower trajectory forward cast to the target. G.
b. How do you advise him ? ? He needs to change his trajectory to more high back cast low forward cast. Yes. Keeping them in line (180 degrees ) with respect to one another. G.
10.) Still another candidate has a
problem with accuracy casting. She does well getting close to each target
with good form and nice loops when casting over her primary casting
shoulder. When doing this over the "opposite" shoulder, she gets the fly
to the 20' and 30' targets, but does poorly on the 45' target; either not making
the distance and/or deviating to either side of it by an unacceptably wide
margin.
a. What is her
most likely problem ? She is binding against her body and restricting her
stroke. Yes. Her stroke length and rod
arc were not sufficient. G.
b. How do you advise her ? Raise her elbow and cast with the rod tip to the non dominate side. This will let her increase her stroke. Good solution. For even greater distance, I taught her to get all the stroke length she needed by crouching and casting cross head. This method, however, usually doesn't yield great accuracy. G.
11.) Now we have a candidate who is
trying to make a good reach mend. She can't get the fly and line to land
with a straight path between the rod tip and the fly. She is right handed
and there is always a layout with a curve, line belly to the
right.
a. What is the likely reason for this ? She is making a concave path of the rod tip to the dominate side after she has made her stop. Actually, she was twisting her wrist inward during her stroke, then she made the reach mend, but the "die was cast" already by then resulting in a compound curve cast and reach mend.
b. How can you help her ? After the stop she should move the rod to the reach side very smoothly in a very straight line. True.... though she needed to cease twisting her wrist. I found the easiest way to correct this was to have her cast with a vertical rod plane aiming straight for the target. Immediately after the stop, to then do as you suggest and while slipping line, reach way out to the side with a deliberate motion. G.
12.) You have helped the candidate in
11.) so that now she can get a nice straight layout on her reach mend.
However, as she makes the mend to either side, the fly pulls way back from the
target (target representing a feeding lane).
a. Now what is her
problem ? She is
not slipping line to reach the target or she should over cast the target with
enough line to pull back as she makes her mend to reach the
target. Correct diagnosis. I
prefer your solution below :-
b. How do you advise her ? Instructor on how to slip line as she makes her reach mend. Yes. (Problem with allowing the fly to be pulled back by the reach maneuver is two fold. 1. It is less accurate. 2. You first cast right over the feeding lane or the fish and then pull the fly back over the same path before the fly lands. G.
13. ) This candidate needs lots of
help, especially with his distance cast. He can't make the required
distance and is off to one side with the layout. As I watched his back
cast, it looked pretty good from the side, but when I got way behind him, I saw
that what had looked like a fairly tight loop when viewed from the side, when
seen from behind was really a very wide loop from side to
side.
a. What is his likely casting arm position as he did that ? It sounds to me as if he is twisting his hand and arm on his back cast thus opening his loop and tracking in a convex path. This is one of Joan Wulff's greatest peeves.... the caster who casts with the arm up and out. Not only does this lead to a twist of the rod back around, yielding a wide loop in the horizontal plane but it places a great deal of stress to the shoulder which if repeated as a way of casting can result in shoulder injury. That wide "sideways" loop is a form of slack which must be taken up before the rod can load resulting is wasted energy. That's one reason for failure to make the required distance. It also places the arm in a position which makes it difficult to make an efficient delivery cast.
This is well depicted on p. 30 of Joan Wulff's FLY CASTING TECHNIQUES. G.
b. Why did this
result in his inability to reach the target distance ? He can?t properly load the rod
with the wide back cast loop. Yes.
c. How would you handle this situation ? Have him watch his back cast and also practice with a line under his cast and lay the back cast down comparing it with the line. Good way of handling this. First I had him lower his arm to a more efficient position. Then I used a trick I learned years ago from Rick Whorwood. This consisted of allowing him to make the faulty back cast and let the line drop. He could see that it curved way around behind him on the layout. Once he realized what was happening, Idid as you suggested and had him watch his back casts. Instead of having him cast over a straight line, I used the method of having him pick a "target" behind him 180 degrees from his forward target.... such as a cloud, a light pole, etc. and purpously make the back cast aimed in that direction. Solved the problem. G.
14. ) Our last CCI candidate also has
trouble with the accuracy tasks. He's an older chap who uses his rather
good fishing style .... Forward elbow, off vertical rod plane, slightly open
stance. His loops are good as is his smooth application of
power.
He gets the distance to each target very
well. No wind is blowing. His fly lands way out to one side or other of
the 20' and 30' targets but he gets it very close to the 45' target each
time.
c.) Why do you think this is happening ? I think his trajectory is too flat. And he his preseption as to where the cast is going is off. Your second assumption was correct. His trajectory was OK. Reason for the problem? He had no concept of the hand-target line and the eye-target line intersecting at the target except for his cast to the distant target. He used an open stance and a way off vertical rod plane for all the presentations. This didn't work well for the close targets. As soon as I taught him to line up the hand- target line with the eye-target line by standing square to the target and switching to a strictly vertical rod plane, bring his rod right up to his forehead on the back cast and then "squeesing to a stop" on his delivery, he became deadly accurate on the short casts. G.
d.) You
corrected his problem very well in short order. How did you do that
? Have him cast more
vertical so he can see his fly over the target.
Yes, Details, above. G.
Gordy
Answers from Lou Bruno:
Lou &
Group...
Here is something which came up recently
(Re. questions 1.) through 5.)
I've been coaching some CCI candidates and
have run across some problems that have recurred. These are described in
questions 7.) through 14.) .
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1.) Your "intermediate"student has
done pretty well. She has good loop control and timing while casting in
the 40 - 50 foot range using her own outfit. This is a medium action 9'
rod with a WF9F line.
She now starts to cast with the same
line and leader, but with an 8' medium action rod. She develops a series
of tailing loops.
Give two likely causes for
this.
a.
The different rod length has
an effect on her timing. That was part of
the problem. (See my comments, above.)
G.
b. Less leverage in the shorter rod, she could be overpowering the cast. Poor match between rod bend and casting arc as well as stroke length. G.
Peter Lami had this to say :
Gordy,
Please allow me to re-phrase the question.
Which fly rod is most likely to cause tailing loops, example slow-,
medium-, or fast-action 8 ft, 8.5 foot or 9 foot? The answer is ?all of
the above? except the fly rod outfit you practice with all the time. The
straight line path of the rod tip is produced when you perfectly match the rod
arc with the bend in the rod. It takes years of practice to consistently
achieve the SLP. As soon as you put a new, or different, fly rod in the
hands of your student you shouldn?t be surprised to see poor loop
control.
Cheers!
Peter Lami
FFF
Master
2.) What is your suggested correction for
fault a.? The
longer rod allowed the rod tip to travel a greater distance, so I would change
the length (increase the stroke length) of her casting stroke.
OK.
3.) Your correction for fault b.
? Use less
power.
4.) She exhibits BOTH fault a.
and fault b. with each cast. How do you handle that
problem?
Concentrate on fixing one problem at a
time.
5.) After practicing for about 3
weeks with the shorter rod, she then goes back to the longer one. Now her
loops are big and she can't make the distance she had made with the shorter
rod.
Why ? Her stroke length is long allowing
the rod tip to turnover within the greater distance. This generates a wide loop
which is less efficient and has more wind
resistance.
6.) Another student casts with good
tracking. There is practically no change of rod plane (casting plane)
between the back cast and the forward cast. He makes very high trajectory
back casts and follows with at attempt to make high trajectory forward casts as
well. He has a stroke length and rod arc whch are fine for the length of
the line carried and he is using smooth constant acceleration to a stop with
excellant application of power. His timing is very
good.
Tailing
loops result.
Why
? Concave path of
the rod tip.
7.) You are helping a CCI candidate prepare
for his exam. He is using a fast action 7 wt. Sage TCR fly rod. His
line is a WF 7F SA Expert Distance Line. The leader is 8' in length and
tapered. He does just fine with most of his tasks and easily
makes the required distance cast.
When he gets to the roll cast tasks, he has
a perfect set-up but then has trouble making tight loops which are below head
level.
a.
What is his problem
? I would say
that the candidate has too long of a casting stroke which allows the tip of his
rod to travel in a much greater arc (generates a wide turnover arc), also if the
loops are below head level then he is allowing his casting hand to travel to low
at the completion of his stroke.
b.
b. How do you advise him? I would instruct the candidate to shorten his forward stroke, work on his timing to have the turnover of the rod tip coincide with his stop.
Getting close. See Jim Bass's answer and my comments, above. G.
8.) Another CCI candidate can't quite
make the 75' required distance cast. He is using lots of energy and has
fairly tight loops on both back cast and forward cast. The leader and end
of the fly line crumple into a poor layout with the fly behind the leader
connection.
a. What is the most likely reason for his problem? Could be the design of his leader. There is insufficient energy (force) making it?s way to the end of the leader, consequently the leader fails to turn over. Need to increase the rod load.
You are correct in that it might have been a poorly balanced leader too long for him to handle. That wasn't the case here, however. The use if insufficient energy can result in failure to make the distance and a crumpled layout, but that wasn't the problem here. G.
b. Tell us your advice to him. He needs to develop more power within his casting stroke, which will load the rod more, this is achieved by increasing either the line mass (shoot line) or acceleration (Force = Mass x Acceleration) during the stroke (back and forward cast). I would start by having the candidate increase his rod hand acceleration during the stroke. If that did not work I would isolate on increasing his rod hand speed prior to his last forward stroke. It wasn?t mentioned if he is hauling; I would look as his hauling technique or teach the candidate to haul. This would increase both the line mass and acceleration.
Agree that this would have been a solution if the problem was application of too little power. G.
9.) This CCI candidate is having
trouble getting the fly close enough to a close target (20'). He does fine
with the 30' and 45' targets, but he keeps overcasting the close target.
His loops are good and his application of power appropriate. Tracking is
fine.
a. What is the
most likely problem ? Too much line extended. Sometimes that is the problem, but not in this
case. G.
b. How do you
advise him ? Shorten up the amount of line past the rod
tip.
10.) Still another candidate has a
problem with accuracy casting. She does well getting close to each target
with good form and nice loops when casting over her primary casting
shoulder. When doing this over the "opposite" shoulder, she gets the fly
to the 20' and 30' targets, but does poorly on the 45' target; either not making
the distance and/or deviating to either side of it by an unacceptably wide
margin.
a. What is her
most likely problem ? Her rod plane (tracking) is off during her casting
stroke. She is losing her distance and accuracy by the line not traveling on a
consistent rod to target path. This could be caused by her overpowering her
stroke (last cast syndrome) in order to make the longer cast. She does fine with
the 20? and 30? targets, so I assume her rod plane is fine. She could be turning
her wrist also. All possible problems yielding the
same result.
G.
b. How do you advise her
? I would
have her cast more consistently without changing her rod plane. I would have her
develop more line speed in order to generate more force and not overpower the
forward cast on her last stroke.
11.) Now we have a candidate who is
trying to make a good reach mend. She can't get the fly and line to land
with a straight path between the rod tip and the fly. She is right handed
and there is always a layout with a curve, line belly to the
right.
a. What is the likely reason for this ? She is using to much energy when she extends her arm from the vertical rod plan to the horizontal rod plane. This would pull the fly back if she didn't slip line. When that happens, however, is doesn't usually result in a curved layout. G.
b. How can
you help her ? Work on having her move the rod to the horizontal rod plane
with less energy during the reach.
12.) You have helped the candidate in
11.) so that now she can get a nice straight layout on her reach mend.
However, as she makes the mend to either side, the fly pulls way back from the
target (target representing a feeding
lane).
a. Now what is her problem ? Not shooting line, allowing the line to pull back from the energy of the forward cast. Yes. Actually, I prefer the term, "slipping line" ..... I'm sure you meant that. G.
b. How do you
advise her ? Have
her shoot line and control the power in the forward cast.
Yes.
G.
13. ) This candidate needs lots of
help, especially with his distance cast. He can't make the required
distance and is off to one side with the layout. As I watched his back
cast, it looked pretty good from the side, but when I got way behind him, I saw
that what had looked like a fairly tight loop when viewed from the side, when
seen from behind was really a very wide loop from side to
side.
a. What is his
likely casting arm position as he did that ? He
brought his casting arm around his back. Yes.
G.
b. Why did this result in his inability to reach the target distance ? A wide loop is more wind resistant and less efficient. True. It also is a form of slack. G.
c. How would you
handle this situation ? Have the candidate extend the arm fully to the
rear, keeping the upper arm below the shoulder and not turn his upper
body. OK. Also see the comments,
above. G.
14. ) Our last CCI candidate also has
trouble with the accuracy tasks. He's an older chap who uses his rather
good fishing style .... Forward elbow, off vertical rod plane, slightly open
stance. His loops are good as is his smooth application of
power.
He gets the distance to each target very
well. No wind is blowing. His fly lands way out to one side or other of
the 20' and 30' targets but he gets it very close to the 45' target each
time.
c.) Why do you think this is happening ? Turning his wrist or too loose of a grip. That would yield inaccuracy, but then I'd expect it to be even worse on the 45' target attempt. G.
d.) You corrected his problem very well in short order. How did you do that ? Have the candidate tighten up on his grip or change his grip and watch his wrist at the completion of his cast. That is one solution to the problem of a grip too loose.... but that wasn't the problem in this instance. G.
Gordy