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    Walter & Group...

    I didn't intend to send messages at this time..... but this question Lou Bruno fired me up to send it and my answer before I leave.

    Gordy

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    Gordy,

    Here is a topic that I don’t think we have touched on, Fly Rods. From time to time I will be asked by a student what determines a “fishing pole’s” stiffness, when I am asked I try to recall what I have read in Don Phillips book! For me I have days where I can’t recall where I put my car keys…never the keys for the boat!

     

    My reason for mentioning this topic is because I’ve read several times where you or your guest decided to use a shorter fly rod when fishing for tarpon. I enjoy fishing for pike and muskie (“toothy critters”), using spinning rods. When I do, I switch to a shorter, lighter rod. I usually cast into the “slop” and I want a rod with some back bone, plus if I am spending a day on the water the lighter rod sure helps physically. On the other hand when I am out fishing for trout in the mountains using my fly rod I carry a longer rod, usually 9ft, to allow me to extend my reach and use the extra leverage to handle the line on the water.

     

    It seems to me we can get the strength we need in a shorter rod, but are there other reason why you use the shorter fly rod on the salt, what are the advantages and disadvantages with a shorter fly rod? Could you use a longer rod with the same physical properties (strength)? Lastly, I did some further reading in Don Phillips book, “the Technology of Fly Rods”

    with the intent to refresh my knowledge on the manufacturing process so I can understand what determines a fly rod stiffness.

    Are you aware of any other books that we can read up on that would help us understand this topic?

     

    Lou

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    Lou...
     
    Please bring this up again when our Group starts up again in August.
     
    Re. the short one-piece rods:
     
    Back in the 70's, many salty fly rodders came to prefer the one-piece 12 wt. Kennedy Fisher fly rods.  These were 9' rods, but very strong.  They were heavy, however, though well muscled and practiced anglers found they cast well.  After many casts they were fatigueing.  In those years, we took a long time to land tarpon which resulted in failure of release or the fish being eaten by sharks.
     
    Here in the Keys (as well as in many other salty destinations) many of us have gone to strong, powerful, shorter ONE PIECE fly rods with no ferrules.  Steve Rajeff came up with them after I hammered on him for about 10 years to get G.Loomis to do it.
     
    Started with G.Loomis finding out that shipping one piece 9' rods was a great deal more expensive that shipping with the entire rod tube package no longer than 9'..... so Steve designed some of them at 8' 10" ....  WE FOUND THAT THEY CAST JUST FINE AND FOUGHT BIG GAME FISH BETTER.  They were lighter and didn't break at the ferrules under the max. stress of fish over 100lbs. (That sometimes happens when one of the ferrules gets the slightest bit loose.)
     
    Many of our Florida skiff guides have embraced them.  Of course, they don't lend themselves to travel, since you can't break them down.
     
    We, then, went back and noted that my very favorite tarpon rod had been one of the G.Loomis GLX MEGA 10-11 Models, 8 1/2' in length.
     
    When I lent that rod to my tarpon buddies here in the Keys, they all lusted for one ...... but G.Loomis had discontinued making those.
     
    I had suspected this would happen, so I'd purchased 3 extra blanks.  My buddies wrapped them up and still fish them in preference to anything else on the market today.
     
    Now I'm leaning heavily on Steve to make this design again in a one piece model.  (I'll do it again this morning as we have breakfast together)
     
                                                                                           WHY ?
     
    ADVANTAGES:
     
    1.)   This rod casts very well.  It has a tip stiffness just perfect for flinging a tarpon line-leader-fly out to Kingdom-Come.
     
    2.)   Made up with REC Titanium/Nickel RECOIL guides, it is light in hand.
     
    3.)   As with any fly rod, the shorter it is, the lighter it feels to the angler.   This is because there is less weight out at a distance from the hand. (Two fly rods can weigh exactly the same on a scale.  One is longer than the other.  The longer one will always feel heavier to the caster and will result in earlier fatigue.)
     
    4.)   The shorter the rod, the more effective pressure the angler can apply to a fish.  Big game salt water fish often require the use of all the pressure a strong angler can muster for long periods.  (The softer tip-to-mid-section literally straightens out as I fight a big tarpon, so I end up applying pressure with the butt section.  That's almost like fighting a fish with a 4' - 5' rod.  A tremendous advantage.)
     
    As I see it, the "action" of a fly rod is where in bends.  The "strength" of a fly rod is how much it bends under a given load.  The engineer looks at it as the stress it will accept before breakage.
     
     
    5.)   Near the end of a battle with a tuna or other deep water pelagic, the angler must use the butt section of the fly rod to LIFT the fish bit by bit to the surface for landing.  In the past, I and my anglers have broken many fly rods when attempting this.
     
    6.)   Considering 4.) & 5.),  This Mega rod has a beefed up butt section which yields a good 20 lb. lifting capacity without fear of breakage.
     
    7.)   Our one piece rods have no ferrules to break or come loose.
     
    8.)   They are made with the corrosive salt water environment in mind.
     
        We have also found that the G.Loomis one piece Cross Current 8'10" are very good for this kind of fishing.  They cast well and are almost as good as my Mega for fighting these beasts.
     
     
     
    DISADVANTAGES:
     
    1.)  These rods don't have the finesse and "feel" for trout fishing.
     
    2.)  You can use them for making effective mends.
     
    3.)  They are not good for single handed Spey moves.
     
    4.)  Much too "powerful" for light tippets.
     
    5.)  They can be difficult to cast for anglers who come to the salt after years of fresh water fishing with longer rods, because they can't easily adapt to the dramatic change in timing needed when suddenly goint to shorter/stiffer fly rods.
     
        When we get back to our Group messages, we'll visit this topic.  As we do that, I'll get some input on fly rod technology which goes way beyond my personal knowledge and experience for all of us to digest.
     
    Gordy
    -----Original Message-----
    From: louis bruno [mailto:loubruno@xxxxxxxxxxxx]