Lines on the water / Sliding / Conservation / Sinking lines

Very intersting. I know what scum lines are but I've never heard of "scud" lines?

A good statement "flies don't attack fish" ... but ... they can "attract" fish.

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Elie... The term, "scud lines" is a local term which we have used to describe lines of foam on the water surface made by strong winds.

A better term for this is, SPINDRIFT .

I think it came from the term "scudding" one meaning being rapidly moving. Another meaning of the word SCUD = mist or spray moved by the wind.

SCUD is another name for a freshwater shrimp like organism .... a little crustacean arthropod of the order Amphipoda found in both lakes and streams.

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From Paul Arden :

Hi Gordy,

On the subject of slide loading, when it comes to distance casting I can't think of any advantage or reducing available casting stroke length or casting arc. Incidentally I think the term "slide loading" is incorrect and the term should be "slide".

The definition of Slide that I use is;

"Slide: A form of drift where the rod is moved along the line towards the line hand."

Where slide is useful is as a repositioning move to position the rod/rod hand to the most effective position for beginning of the forward casting stroke.

If you have a Stroke similar to Rick Hartman's, or Lefty Kreh for that matter, your rod hand will complete the backcast at some point behind the body. In order to eliminate slide you would have to reach back with your hauling hand to put the hands together. While some casters attempt this, this is not going to give you your most effective haul (because your hauling arm will be almost straight, and the acceleration comes from the elbow straightening).

Using Slide you can relocate the rod while positioning your hauling hand into the most powerful starting position. So while it can give you a longer cast, the reason is not to do with Slide, it has to do with the haul.

At least that's the way I see it!

Cheers, Paul

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Paul,

I've worked on our CBOG Glossary Committee long enough and have reviewed so many definitions offered by others, that I've concluded that any flycasting definition is open to challenge.

I do like your defiinition of SLIDE, however. It is simple, crisp, and carries no hidden meanings. I also prefer it because it doesn't make any reference to loading or lack thereof. It's what it IS, not what it can DO.

Joan Wulff's use of the term "slide loading" has been open to question by many. One cannot load the rod by sliding. However, when her default style of casting is used, slide can certainly be a maneuver which can result in the modification of rod loading when the two are performed at the same time. I think that may have been why she coined the term, "slide loading" years ago. Apparently it works well for her as she notes that her longest casts are made when she uses it.

As I see it, the slide can only diminish the load when the two are used in combination. That is why I think that it may sometimes be used by some casters to smooth out what might otherwise have been erratic or jerky start. It may (as you note) also be used by some as a repositioning move.

Lefty doesn't use DRIFT in the sense that Joan describes it. (Or as a move in the direction of an unrolling loop which increases stroke length and casting arc for the next cast). He simply brings the rod way back and unloads it there. It appears that he has already repositioned his hand for the next cast as he does that. I have not observed his use of the

slide as he comes forward with his next cast.

The time interval during both drift and slide can, at the option of the caster, be used to reposition the rod hand for the next cast.

I also agree on the observation that the greatest power on the haul comes from extension of the elbow but would add that it is augmented by simultaneous extension of the line hand shoulder. For some casters, rapid ulnar deviation of the wrist is added.

Gordy

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From Bob Tabbert as he analyzes the feeling and effect of slide on his own casting :

Gordy, Greetings from south Louisiana, got your test message.

I went out casting in the cool of 5:00 AM and worked on my 'slide' casting. Thanks for your recent postings, advice and Joan Wulff's new article on slide casting.

I was curious as to how this slide business worked and wondered how one would answer Tom White's famous question: 'What are the advantages and disadvantages of this "technique/cast" ?

After struggling to retrain my back cast hauling to slide the rod forward while the line hand was coming back/up and the line was still moving/drifting out, it dawned on me that I was adding a few more inches of line out of the rod tip, then shortening my forward translation and delaying my forward rotation.....it sort of felt good actually...a technique that fits my slow leverage casting style.

On the disadvantage side, besides being difficult to retrain your hauling, the technique could lead to developing a sudden increase in rotation, a power spike, resulting in a tail. You might also end up while making a long, long distance cast with a translation stroke too short to straighten out the longer line, a casting stroke to short for the amount of line, resulting in a tail.

Dare I suggest that a slide is creeping the rod forward with out moving the line forward ?? Do I plan to slide on all of my hauling casts?, probably not..perhaps without knowing what I was doing on some shorter hauling casts I was sliding.

Bob

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CONSERVATION

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Bob Tabbert offers these readings on conservation :

These three books focus on some important fish conservation issues:
Overfishing: The End of the Line by Charles Clover ISBN-13:978-1-59588-109

Hatcheries/salmon: Salmon Without Rivers by Jim Lichtowich ISBN-1-55963-360-3

Mining issues: Wounding the West, Montana, Mining and the Environment by David Stiller
ISBN-0-8032-4281-6

Isn't fly fishing great? So much to learn! You have a great fourth, thanks again for your hard, daily work in leading a venue to share and improve our fly casting/fishing/conservation knowledge. Bob

Robert L. Tabbert
Conservation, Fly Fishing, Exploration

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Catching up on all the e-mails on sinking lines. Very interesting read for me. Just returning from Alaska this week where we applied full sink and sink tip's on the Spey Rod. Learned a few things about sinking lines.

1.) My casting in Alaska was from the shore line. I was only able to fish one day which was a Sunday. On the Kasilof River fishing on the fly from a boat was not permitted on a Sunday. This was to allow the Local conventional fisherman a day with out drift boat Guide pressures on the Kasilof. The River was full of Flesh from the previous year's Salmon run. So we were using flesh patterns for our presentation. Also Black Leach pattern. We utilized a motorized drift boat to negotiate the waters. Initial put in was unusual according to the guide. Very little wind great for casting, the lake we accessed to enter the River was calm. Not a normal day, usually wind and wave action is common. Due to these conditions the water was gin clear. The guide informed me that he prefer the usual cloudy condition where water and mud combine turning the water a turquois blue color with about 2 to 3 feet visibility in the water. This condition was not realized by me until the last third of the trip down river at which point the action began. For those planning a trip to Alaska to fish the Kasilof River, the best time line for large Trout would be from Late Aug. Sept. and Oct. This is due to the eggs that the Trout gorge on during this time of year.

2). A key to sink line casing is keeping the correct amount of line out the tip is very important in order to make the cast. Too much line out the tip and the cast will collapse. We all try to push the envelope on this, but the results are quite evident when you have surpassed the limits of the line and rod. Tension on the line is critical in the performance of the cast.

Agree. Control of OVERHANG ( Length of running line or shooting line between the rod tip and the rear of the head ) is so important. Some casters can handle much more overhang than others. As I'm sure you know, one trick is to shoot a bit of line on the very last back cast thus increasing the length of line carried for a longer cast without all of the penalties of this much overhang when false casting. G.

3.) With Sinking line from the bank our agenda was to cast out 90 degrees or slightly up stream and allow the swing to take place. Full sinking line was lightly tagging the bottom for the swing. Sinking tip was slightly off the bottom for the swing. Hitting the seam was very important where drop off coincided with current changes on the River.

Atlantic salmon fishers may scratch their heads over that 90 degrees. They usually fish with floating lines and cast at less than 90 degrees to the river. Reason is that they are not trying to get the fly way down deep and they don't wish the belly of the line to preceed the fly prior to the swing. G.

4.) Angle of the line is very important, not only for presentation to the fish, but also the ability to keep communication as stated below. Being in touch with the line to feel the strikes. The feeding of line in fast currents to make the prolonged drift is one that has to be timed well by the caster. This line control feed to still maintain the ability to feel the strike when it occurs is an art form in itself.

Yes. Staying in touch is very important with both these trout and salmon. In my experience (unlike tarpon) a quick strike will yeild more hookups when fishing Alaskan rivers. G.

5.) When all was said in done 3 Trout were taken from 20' to 23" in length. Had a total of 7 good takes late in the day that yielded the 3 trout. Day started at 7:00 am finished at 7:00 pm. Looking forward to making this trip again with more time available. Need at least a minimum of 3 days fishing in my opinion.

I'll guess that these were bows. Nice fish !!! G.

Also experienced the (BMF) Big Fish Move! This is where the trout takes the Fly and immediately once hook is felt turns down stream and surfaces to eliminate the Fly.

Very exciting experience indeed.

Note: Guide pointed out that the big trout on the Kasilof River like to hang out around gravel banks that also have a high content of sand mix. All our trout were caught around these gravel banks where sand was the base on which the gravel or rocks sat. Interesting statistic.

Gary Davison

Gulf Coast Spey

CND Custom Design: Representative

Willis

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