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  • RE: Stop paper version 2



    Title: Message
    Server:
     
    As an orthopaedic surgeon I can add this thought:
     
    When the caster attempts to initiate what he calls a "stop", the muscles which have been moving and rotating the rod in the direction of the cast quickly diminish activity while the muscles acting in the opposite direction rapidly come into action.  There is a brief period (different with different casts and different casters) when both muscle groups are acting at the same time to stabilize the fly rod. 
     
    We call the muscles acting to rotate and move the rod tip in the direction of the cast, the AGONISTS whereas the muscles acting in the opposite direction are called the ANTAGONISTS.
     
    The interval between the primary use of the agonists and that of the antagonist musculature when of short duration give the apparent "quick stop" and vice versa.  A true STOP as defined by total cessation of movement almost never occurs, but one can come as close as possible to this when the agonist and antagonist muscles are acting in concert and are equally effective.  I see this as yielding the "platform" we've discussed.
     
    Best,
     
    Gordy
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Ssadik1@xxxxxxx [mailto:Ssadik1@xxxxxxx]
    Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 5:49 PM
    To: hillshead@xxxxxxxxxxx; simbirsw@xxxxxxx; jasonborger@xxxxxxxxx
    Subject: Re: Stop paper version 2

    In a message dated 5/26/2009 2:45:16 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, hillshead@xxxxxxxxxxx writes:
    Hi all,
    I'm sending this along right now - it is incomplete, but I want to demonstrate that on my end something is actually occurring.  I need a brake right now but tonight I hope to send attachments with some plots and other stuff.  I want to review the text in more detail and it will surely change.  This is more in the manner of a heads up.
     
    If you want to maintain "stop" as a useful tool you may consider talking about what actually happens.  I think most teachers use it to move pupils away from waving the rod (insufficient rod deflections) to a situation where they achieve greater levels of rod loading.  Using the word "stop" to explain is tricky because what the student must achieve is muscular tenseness during rod loading and unloading movements (during unloading it is mainly a carryover from loading anyway).  Apparently teachers have had success assoctiating the muscular tenseness during unloading motions with the idea that "stops" are occurring.  A fact is that once you decide on a hand motion range (translation and rotation) appropriate to your casting objective, muscular tension is required during the later portion of the movement to generate butt rotation speeds and rod loading.  It carries over to unloading (something natural occurs here at the end of hand travel - the hand has to stop and there is the carryover muscle tenseness from rod loading) and the more you can do during unloading the greater the line speeds achieved.  A teaching mechanism I use is to help the student understand is to have them hold my arm (biceps and triceps) and feel the contradictions at rod loading and beyond.  Then I have them hold their own arm to see if similar contractions are occurring.  I guess I'm thinking and writing on the fly but my inclination would be to refer to it as "maximal tenseness" development or "muscle contraction" at end of stroke and say this can feel sort of like a stop(?).  But right now a truthful description is that what is occurring is a heightened (not necessarily maximal) level of muscular activity all the way from end of preload to RSP.  RSP defines where real stopping begins and the end of the heightened muscular activity.
     
    More later - Server
     
     
    Walter...
     
    I agree with you all the way.
     
    The paper will be met with antagonism and skepticism if we don't carefully talk about the value of continuing to use the term STOP as a teaching tool as well as the things a true STOP can do such as forming a platform, etc., etc.
     
    Gordy
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Walter Simbirski [mailto:simbirsw@xxxxxxx]
    Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 12:13 PM
    To: Gordon Hill; 'Gordy Hill'; Ssadik1@xxxxxxx; 'Jason Borger'
    Subject: Re: Stop paper version 2

    Do we want to add anything to this paper? It seems somewhat simplistic at this point but my opinion
    is that we should not dilute the basic concept with other stuff. I think this is going to be a bit of a change
    for some people.
     
    Gordy also raised an excellent point today in his study group regarding the usefulness of "the stop" as a
    teaching tool. I think with a bit of discussion people will realize that we are not advocating getting rid of
    the stop as a teaching aid or as a stylistic element with many useful benefits.
     
    I think a second paper discussing some of the implications would be a good way to go.
     
    Thanks
     
    Walter
    ----- Original Message -----
    Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2009 9:55 AM
    Subject: RE: Stop paper version 2

    Walter, Server & Jason....
     
    I've spent some time going over the wording of this paper and find nothing which fails to fit my own concepts. 
     
    The format looks OK to me.  I could find not spelling errors or problems with language.
     
    Best,
     
    Gordy
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Walter Simbirski [mailto:simbirsw@xxxxxxx]
    Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 3:27 AM
    To: Gordy Hill; Ssadik1@xxxxxxx; Jason Borger
    Subject: Stop paper version 2

    I've done some clean up on and simplification of the stop paper and attached it for your perusal.
     
    Thanks
     
    Walter