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  • RE: "Lift" v. Gravity / Reel Drag set



    Title: Message
    Agree !
     
    Gordy
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Walter Simbirski [mailto:simbirsw@xxxxxxx]
    Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 12:19 PM
    To: Gordy Hill
    Subject: Re: "Lift" v. Gravity / Reel Drag set

    Gordy -
     
    Regarding Peter Morse's statement - I wish I had said that. A nice simple
    analogy that gets the point across.
     
    Walter
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Gordy Hill
    Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 5:51 AM
    Subject: "Lift" v. Gravity / Reel Drag set

    Walter & Group...

    From Peter Morse:

    Sorry, I can't get my head around what the mystery is. If you throw 
    something (a ball, a stone etc)  hard enough it'll stay airborn until 
    gravity overcomes the velocity and the trajectory and will pull it to 
    ground. A highly trained throwing arm can send an object a long way 
    with a very flat trajectory, a poorly trained throwing arm throws 
    something with a lob and it doesn't go very far and falls to the 
    ground  quickly. I think we're looking for mystery where there is 
    none......... for me this horse is well and truly flogged to death.



    Peter Morse

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Peter....     Right you are !   No witchcraft required at all.

    Take the case of the bullet shot from a gun in a horizontal direction, parallel to the ground.

    The bullet will go a long way depending upon its velocity.  All the while, however, gravity is exerting its effect.  The reason it can go so far is that it is going so fast that during its flight it travels a long way before gravity pulls it to Earth.

    Of course, it IS more complicated than that, because atmospheric resistance to the flight of the bullet does slow it down.  In the event that this same bullet was shot out in space where there is no appreciable gravity and no atmosphere, it would travel indefinitely.

    That same bullet, if dropped from the muzzle of the gun and not shot, would probably fall the the ground in the same time interval as it would if shot.

    Let's see what one of our scientists have to say about this.

    Gordy

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

                                                                          DRAG SET

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Question from Jim Harvey:

    Gordy-

    Most of us set the reel drag based upon “feel,” especially for freshwater fishing.  But I’d like to set the drag as tight as reasonably possible in order to stop (or slow down) large trout in lakes from taking off for the next county, going well into the backing, and eventually breaking 12 lb test tippet at the fly.  Is there a formula for setting the drag on the reel based upon the strength of the leader tippet? 

     

    I’ve estimated the (straight) drag tension using a Boga Grip and have found even three pounds of drag resistance to be more than I would feel comfortable using with 12 lb tippet.  It would be great to know how much resistance I could safely get away with.  Of course, it largely depends upon how much pressure is being applied by the bend of the rod, the stiffness of the rod, the direction the trout is going, and whether the trout has turned at an angle from the fisherman.  Maybe there are too many variables to be able to answer this question definitively, but any suggestions would be appreciated.

     

    Jim Harvey

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Jim:

    Fresh or salt.... the principles of drag setting are similar.

    I'll start by saying that 3 pounds of drag when using your 12 lb. tippet is a LOT !!

    When fishing for large salty pelagics such as sailfish and marlin, we would often use a 20 lb. test tippet.  Even so, we'd set the strike drag at a measured 2 lbs.  Some of the experienced anglers would have a mark on their reel drag setting knob so that as the fish ran way out to kingdom come, they could quickly move it down to ONE POUND.

    As the fish ran out even farther, we'd reduce it to just enough to keep the backing from back lashing.

    EVEN SO, AS THE FISH TURNED AND KEPT GOING, THE TIPPET WOULD SOMETIMES BREAK !  

                                                                        Why ?

    1.) No matter how far you back off on the drag as the fish takes off, you still have the resistance of the line or backing to the guides and tip-top of the rod.  This will vary depending upon the position in which the rod is held and its bend.

    2.) As the fish runs way out there, there is resistance of the fly line to the water.  The longer the line in the water, the greater the resistance. (You would have all this even if there were zero reel drag.)

    3.) This resistance of the water to the fly line, is magnified dramatically as the fish turns and keeps going.  Thus, the fish can easily break the tippet "against the belly of the line".

    So what do we do when one of these big fish runs way out there ?

    #  We back off on the reel drag so that there is just enough to prevent backlash and a tangle.

    #  If in a boat, we move the craft in the direction of the fish.  This has to be done carefully so as not to provide slack.  A good captain or guide can do this in a way which helps negate the curve in the fly line made by the fish turning.

    #  With really big game, we rig up differently...... cutting the fly line back so as to leave just enough for the cast we'll likely make.

    #  Many use sinking fly lines because the diameter is less .... thus less water resistance.

    Expert anglers use the rim drag on the reel to control the drag, as well rather than taking the chance of increasing it with the drag knob simply because they can release it in a heartbeat if the fish lunges or jumps.

    Once the fish is closer to you and begins to be subdued, more finger drag on the reel rim is used by these anglers.  When the angler feels that it's time to do so, the drag on the reel is increased gradually to put pressure on the fish.  Some call that the "fight drag".... about 4 lbs (with a 20 lb. tippet and the fish close by)

    To this is added more rim-drag pressure as the angler feels he has increasing control.

    Having said all this, I know that there are differences of opinion about fighting big fish, especially tarpon.  I could write an entire article on that subject !  Suffice it to say, that I'll adjust my drag when fighting a tarpon depending on the size of the fish and (more importantly) how it is behaving after hooked.  There are times when I increase that drag almost to the breaking point of the leader system when indicated in order to break the tarpon's SPIRIT.  Then I can finish him off sooner and am more likely to gain a successful release because I have not exhausted the creature.

    It's a whole different ball game when fishing a river.  When a big fish like a salmon booms down river and you can't run after him, one trick is to peel off line and roll it out to him down river.  This provides a loop in the water so that the river can start to pull him a bit downstream.  Sometime the fish will turn in response and go back upstream.  I've use this trick on King salmon in Alaska.

    KISS PRINCIPLES :

     A.   When a big fish runs way out there, the worse thing you can do is to increase your drag to try to stop him !

     B.   Set your drag very lightly to start.  You can always increase it later after the fish settles down.

     C    I like Lefty's method ......Place your line in your mouth so it is held only by your lips. As you close your lips, this should be the amount of reel drag used for most fishing.

     D.  As the fish runs way out there, REDUCE YOUR DRAG !

    Gordy