Rolls & Spey / Good answers to quiz

Walter & Group...

From Jerry Puckett:

Thanks Ally,

 

Very enlightening--It was somewhat discouraging for me getting motivated to start Spey Casting reading about the various styles and names.  Being a simple minded person I look for simple ways of doing things.  Very helpful when flying Jet airplanes such as the B-747!

 

In talking with Master Eddie Robinson he shared his philosophy regarding learning Spey Casting--Put a Spey Rod in a students hands go over fundamentals and let the person develop his own casting style.  My question does Spey Casting have to have a particular name for a beginning student?  What is best is what works for the person.  Am I off base?

 

My Point--it would be less confusing to one new to the sport not worry about various styles of Spey Casting and think in simple terms of just learning a fundamental safe cast!   Much more fun for me with this approach.   Thanks Eddie for opening the easy door!

 

Again thanks for taking the time to share! 

 

Jerry Puckett

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Jerry...    Your thinking is in line with the way Tom White used to teach casts which were new to the student.  He'd note the student's confusion with all the names of the casts and the terms which were sometimes intimidating....   then he'd say,

 

"I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU WANT TO CALL IT, LET'S JUST DO IT ".   That relaxed the student and was effective.

 

Whether teaching one handed or two handed casting, I recognize two distinct teaching philosophies:

 

1.)  Teaching ONE style and then having the caster gravitate to his/her own style after the lessons.  (Joan Wulff's method.)

 

2.)  Teaching casts allowing the student to develop a style of his own right in the beginning. (Bill Gammel's method)

 

Neither is a "wrong" way to do it.

 

Gordy

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When a Scot and an Irisman get together..... WATCH OUT !!   This from Ally Gowans :

 

Hi Gordy,

 

I just want to say that my good pal Liam is not too old to remember greenheart, he just never remembers anything, like when he owes money or when his turn on the drinks comes around. However he clearly remembers that you can roll cast on grass and although it hurts be greatly I have to agree with him! I would not recommend teaching roll casts on grass but frequently have to give Spey and roll casting demonstrations in grass arenas at big shows here and with practice and care its not a problem.

 

Regards teaching the ideal place for Spey casts is on a shallow ford on a river where casts can be made to either side.

 

The wind questions that you gave the group were too easy, how about a 30 mph wind blowing towards you across the river at right angles to the river and also at 45 degree quarters towards you over the river in an upstream direction and alternatively in a downstream direction. How do you make the casts work for those conditions?

 

Best wishes,

Ally Gowans

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QUESTIONS ON THE TABLE:

I.  You are using a two handed Spey rod.  You are on the right bank of the river.  A 30 mph strong wind is blowing directly toward you across the river at right angles to the river.  How do you handle this ?

II. Same position on the river; same tackle. Now the strong wind is blowing at 45 degrees quartering toward you over the river in an upstream direction and alternatively in a downstream direction.

     a. How do you handle the wind blowing at 45 degrees quartering in an upstream direction ?

     b. How do you handle the wind blowing at 45 degrees quartering in the downstream direction ?

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Jim Valle answers the 20 question quiz :

 

 

1. What is an ideal location for a two hour beginning two hand casting class with four students? Why?

A. Running water

B. A pond  B, current is another timing variable and anchors (water) are preferable

C. Large grass area

 

 

2. What do you tell students about grip? Light two fingers top(can add some grip at the stop)  and bottom (“O”)

 

3. What do you tell students about stance? Variable… and a lot of style or situation dependent, casting side (top hand side) foot back can lead to unwanted torso twisting, usually start them with casting side foot  forward.

 

4. What is your definition of a spey cast? Active line roll type cast with a change of direction

 

5. Define "river right". Right Bank” face center river,  river is flowing to your right … which means the dangle will be on your right… downstream.

 

6. Define "river left".“Left Bank” face center river,  river is flowing to your left  … which means the dangle will be on your left… downstream.

 

7. Define "Left bank". See above

 

8. Define "Right bank". See above

 

9.. Define "upstream wind"    What casts would you teach ? Wind is blowing in upstream direction …opposite the current flow

Single Spey, Snap T, C, Z, Spiral ….

 

 

10. Define "downstream wind" What casts would you teach ? Wind is blowing in downstream direction… with the current flow

Double Spey, Snake Roll, Spiral…

 

 

11,. A body building, testosterone poisoned fellow insists on applying excess power and speed to the cast. Any suggestions on how to slow him down?

 Less Grip

More line out of rod tip, for some folks less line might work depending on their psyche less line could convince them that it will take very little power…

Switch hands

Slow down … try with ½ the power, now ½ that power

 

12. What is "spey waltz" timing ?

 Lift 2-3, Loop 2-3, Sweep 2-3, Cast 2-3  

 

13. What is the difference between a SINGLE SPEY CAST and a SWITCH CAST ? Single Spey includes a change of direction

 

14. In as few words as possible, describe the main differences between a Spey cast and a "Straight line overhead cast" using a two handed rod.

Spey loop is directed under the rod tip, uses water anchor for loading, D Loop minimal space required behind caster, constant tension on rod and line

Overhead loop is above rod tip,  rod loads against inertia of aerialized line,  BC space required full length, Cast requires a stop which unloads the rod

 

15. We hear the term BALANCED TACKLE .  What is usually meant by this :

 

         a. When talking about single handed straight line casting tackle ? line and reel similar in proportion to the rod recommended line wt. # (affected by caster ability… overline etc.) , some refer to a balance point on the rod cork with 30’ of line extended beyond the tip balanced by the reel and stored line weight.

 

         b.  When discussing two handed Spey tackle ? Usually a grain wt to rod line wt # ratio that gives a balance point that supports the pivot point on the upper handle where the upper hand is placed yields max bottom hand leverage. Changes with types of spey casting and rods leads casters to customize lines.

 

16.  What is a "white mouse" ? line and or leader breaking the surface tension … being ripped off the surface with resultant white spray… “white mouse”

 

17. What is meant by the term, "anchor" ? leader and/ or amount of line that is allowed to set into the surface tension against which the rod can be loaded

 

18.  What is a "D-loop" ? Shape of an underhand loop under the rod tip forms a “D” shape

 

19.  Tell us one advantage of using the Spey casts to fish a river ? No false casting over fish

 

20.  Which is the best angle of alignment between the target and the D-loop when making a single Spey cast ?

 

       a.  90 degrees.

 

       b.  45 degrees.

 

       c. 180 degrees. D Loop, Anchor and Target must all be in straight line alignment (180 deg)  to make an efficient Spey cast

 

       d. No particular angle of alignment.

 Jim

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Answers with slightly different wording from Mark Milkovitch :

 

Hi Gordy

 

ALL ANSWERS IN BLUE.

1. What is an ideal location for a two hour beginning two hand casting class with four students? Why?

 

A. Running water – Although a good case could be made for employing the other two, the adhesive consistency of water over grass makes it better for seeing the splash and learning timing.  Since a two hour session may well be the last session before the student applies what he has learned, it is important that the class situation match the fishing situation as closely as possible.

B. A pond

C. Large grass area

 

2. What do you tell students about grip? The upper hand should grip at the point of balance on the handle, keep your hands as far apart as arm length allows

 

3. What do you tell students about stance? Whichever hand is uppermost, the opposite foot should be forward if possible. 

 

4. What is your definition of a spey cast?  A cast without a back cast.

 

5. Define "river right". Facing Downstream, toward the right bank.

 

6. Define "river left". Facing downstream, toward the left bank.

 

7. Define "Left bank". Facing downstream, the bank on your left

 

8. Define "Right bank". Facing downstream, the bank on your right.

 

9. Define "upstream wind"    What casts would you teach?  Wind moving against the current; Single Spey, Circle Spey & Snap T.

 

10. Define "downstream wind" What casts would you teach?  Wind moving with the current, Double Spey & Snake Roll.

 

11. A body building, testosterone poisoned fellow insists on applying excess power and speed to the cast. Any suggestions on how to slow him down?

 

12. What is "spey waltz" timing? It refers to the rhythm and stroke speed appropriate to the double spey.

 

13. What is the difference between a SINGLE SPEY CAST and a SWITCH CAST? Unlike the Single Spey, the switch cast is not a change of direction cast.

 

14. In as few words as possible, describe the main differences between a Spey cast and a "Straight line overhead cast" using a two handed rod.  In the spey, the initial movement positions the line to load the rod without a backcast as opposed to actually making a backcast for the overhead cast.

 

15. We hear the term BALANCED TACKLE.  What is usually meant by this:

 

         a. When talking about single handed straight line casting tackle? It generally refers to using a line weight which properly loads the rod for the distances being cast. 

 

         b. When discussing two handed Spey tackle? The balance point for the top vs. bottom of the rod should occur on the cork grip in a location suitable for the upper hand. The appropriate line weight for loading the rod also applies with two handed rods.

 

16.  What is a "white mouse"? The spray created during Stage 2 of the double spey as the line is being moved from in front of the casters body into a Belly or D-Loop.

 

17. What is meant by the term, "anchor"?  The line left in the water at the end of the backstroke which must create enough resistance so that the D-Loop can form.

 

18.  What is a "D-loop"?  The line hanging behind the rod which supplies the resistance required to load the rod.

 

19.  Tell us one advantage of using the Spey casts to fish a river?  They allow a change of direction cast to be done with less effort than required for an overhead cast.

 

20.  Which is the best angle of alignment between the target and the D-loop when making a single Spey cast?

            a. 90 degrees.

            b. 45 degrees.

            c.180 degrees.

            d. No particular angle of alignment.

 

 

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From: Gordy Hill [mailto:masterstudygroup@xxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 7:56 PM
To: Mark Milkovitch