Walter & Group...
Thomas Berggren asks a question about the effect of fly line stretch on casting:
Hi Gordy,
Welcome
back!
I really enjoy this study group. It
helps me reach new plateaus every day!
This is regarding “the
stretch-factor” in fly lines……
If we compare two identical fly
lines but with different core I believe the fly line with Low Stretch Core have
a higher energy-transfer-factor than a line with the standard core. I also
believe that the same Low Stretch Line will transfer mistakes better. A bad cast
gets worse…
With that I my mind I started to
investigate the stretch-factor in some of the most well-known distance and
competition lines. Two of my personal favourites # 5 lines for distance casting
is SA ED and Snowbee XS-ED and both of them had about the same stretch
factor.
However,
The twist is that I delivered longer
casts after the “stretching” when the rubber band-effect was gone. I have tried
it several times to compare the casts before and after the stretching and I
would say I’m adding about 2 – 3 feet to my maximum distance.
We have to clear about this test;
it’s not a scientific test. It’s just a simple “try-out” test on my casting
track. I have tried it on several top casters and about half of them say that
they perform longer casts and the other half not. I have also consider it could
be the psychological placebo effect as well as we can assume the stretched line
will affect the rod loading at the start of the stroke. I also mean the rubber
band effect is a type of a slight slack in the system, but only during
increasing acceleration, then it will catch up……….
So, I really hope the group can help
me to clear this up and I’m curious to hear if some one else have had the same
thoughts.
Thomas Berggren,
Thomas
Berggren, Certified Instructor
FFF -
Federation Of Fly Fishers,
CCI - Certified Casting Instructor
THCI - Two
Handed Certified Instructor.
EFFA - European Fly Fishing
Association,
CI - Certified Instructor.
Lilla Malma Fishery
Malma-Brogetorp
640 32
Malmkoping
Web:
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Thomas.... Great question ! You almost answered your own question when you called attention to the "rubber band effect" of a stretchy fly line as producing "slight slack in the system but only during increasing acceleration then it will catch up ..........".
Problem lies in that as it does "catch up" unwanted waves may appear in the line which translates to diminished efficiency and lowered distance.
In the fall edition, 2002, of the LOOP, Mel Krieger posed that question.
The following issue of the LOOP, Winter, 2002 contained two well thought out answers by Bruce Richards and Tim Rajeff. This is available on the FFF Website.
Bruce pointed out the findings by Steve Rajeff and Chris Korich who tested the experimental stretchy lines made by S.A.:
(They) "cast poorly - the loops distorted badly during high speed casting. By the time the rod tip stopped on the final forwrd cast, the line had stretched to a significant degree. After the rod tip stopped and the loop was formed, the tension was released from the line. It then relaxed and "accordioned", forming a series of S curves in the top leg of the loop. These curves were wind resistant and the lines didn't travel very far. When we built the lines on a core with less inherent stretch, the problem ws solved: in their first year these new lines broke all the world distance records. Energy can be stored in a stretched fly line, but that energy cannot be well controlled as the loop travels forward, thereby disrupting the cast."
He went on to say that this isn't nearly so much of a problem when trout fishing since those lines are never exposed to anywhere near the forces used in tournament casting. He opined that some degree of stretch is desirable in most fly lines for most fishing applications. He concluded that,
"Tailoring the stretch of the cores of fly lines to their specific applications allows them to cast and fish properly. Too much stretch, or too little, causes problems. "
Tim Rajeff followed by agreeing with Bruce. He pointed out that the lines which were the most stable in the air were those with the least core stretch. He was talking about distance casting.
As I see it, some degree of stretch can be of value when fishing for protection of fine tippets. Another factor rears its ugly head: Lines with no stretch at all, are ruined if they coil badly, because it is impossible to get those coils out of them by stretching (or any other means of which I'm aware.)
When tarpon fishing, a low stretch line can be an advantage. Not only is it easier to achieve greater distance (when required), but on the strip-strike, it is more likely that the angler will successfully drive the hook point home into the hard mouth parts for a successful hookup.
Gordy
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Advice to MCI candidates
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During the years of study for MCI certification, it would be a great idea to systematically read each and every article in the LOOP issues, going all the way back into the archive. These are available at: http://www.fedflyfishers.org/loop.php .. Making your own "catalog by title" will allow ready future reference as you visit and re-visit various topics.
G.
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Words for teaching- "Force / Power"
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Peter Minnick helps to put things i perspective as he discusses the use of words used for teaching :-
Gordy....When teaching, a student may not be using enough "force/
power"...I've used the word "authority/ line speed/tip speed whatever
word we use we're trying to communicate the concept of accelerated
acceleration. Many instructors use words that sound like the action
ie. Mel Kreigers whuuuuuup comes to mind. I often use the analogy of a
golf swing. The greater the club head speed....the further the ball
will go. The average golfer swings the clubhead at 75-85 mph. Tiger
swings at 130 mph. Now, to achieve ones optimum clubhead speed there
must be a minimum of tension. When you use the word force /power I
think it has a connotation of using the muscles in a way that will
cause tension. For this reason tension or grip pressure has always
been an important part of my teaching. Joan teaches squeezing the
handle of a screen door as an image of the stop...otherwise the grip
is soft and free of tension. Like holding a bird in your hand...For
this reason it's important to choose your words carefully not only so
you're getting the concept across but so that you and the student are
on the same page... Peter
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Peter.. While not all these word pictures are scientifically "correct" they serve to get the point across to students. I've always liked Floyd Franke's command to "squeeze to a stop". He uses it to imply a controlled "stop" for accuracy casting.
G.
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From Ally Gowans:
Hi
Gordy,
As someone who has
spent a lot of time dealing with power and force in professional life I shy away
from these terms when teaching fly casting because although their use is
legitimate most people apply too much force to fly casting. Instead I use
“speed”, an equally valid word that I have found to be better understood by the
majority of students.
Best
wishes,
Ally
Gowans
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Mark Huber uses this word concept in this message:
HI
Gordy,
When I was working on
improving my back cast, I spent a couple of hours one evening making my back
cast into a wind until it would cut into the
wind. This exercise forced me to tighten my back loop and
improve the line speed to get the back cast to
straighten. I still like to practice casting into a wind to work on tight
loops, loop and line speed and haul timing. You can really see the results
of the changes when working into a wind.
Have a great time
away.
Mark
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